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welcome to tales from the rabbit hill

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i'm your host mick west

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my guest today is alex who has a rather

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different journey

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into conspiracism than most people who

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usually get into it via watching a video

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later in life alex was actually raised

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by conspiracy

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theorists his parents were conspiracy

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theorists and so for him

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being a conspiracy theorist was

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essentially his default position

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he eventually emerged out of this after

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going to college but one of the last

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things he held on to was his belief in

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the 9 11 conspiracy theory 911 being an

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inside job

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and one of the things that helped him

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out of that finally was reading my book

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escaping the rabbit hole

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so that was very interesting to me and

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we talked about that in the second half

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of this interview

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alex welcome to tales from the rabbit

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hole thank you very much for being here

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you're having me

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yeah you just emailed me kind of out of

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the blue and

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told me a bit about you know where

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you're coming from and stuff sure

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so some of this is kind of like come to

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life for me more recently

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you know after having gone to therapy

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for a couple of years and just

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reflecting on things

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but i think in a lot of ways i was like

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brought up

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in that in my upbringing you know that

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kind of like

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laid the foundation for being receptive

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to this kind of thinking

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it's kind of like a generalized distrust

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of reality you know what i mean

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yeah and that's one of those things

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growing up when you're a kid you don't

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notice it you don't pay attention to it

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because it's normalized you know you

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just

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want to believe your parents that it's

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only

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kind of retrospectively that i realize

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hey my parents

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didn't have maybe normal ideas like

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you know listening to you know fearless

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conservative talk radio

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12 hours a day and watching that kind of

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stuff on tv

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and anytime any kind of news event would

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happen

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it would suddenly be like oh well you

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know this is the inside job like this

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is and for me it was like oh yeah you

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know as a kid you think that's so

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fascinating you're like

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oh my parents are so smart they know

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something that other people don't know

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this was this was both your parents were

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kind of into

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uh this type of thing yeah and i would

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say that you know

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i think we maybe do ourselves a

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disservice

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just as people living in the 21st

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century to have this kind of idea that

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maybe every conspiracy theorist looks

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like dale gribble

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because they're not like that you know

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like not everyone's in their basement

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like doing the research or whatever

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sometimes it's just people who

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kind of like you mentioned in your book

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like have a mindset or maybe a

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proclivity

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and what's so kind of pernicious about

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it is that

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we you we can't narrow down you know

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what it is is it like

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an affluence thing is it an intelligence

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thing is it a

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diet thing you know what's the thing and

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the answer is we still really don't know

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maybe there isn't a thing

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you know i think that's kind of a

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conclusion you came to as well where

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you're like

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yeah we don't exactly know so yeah my

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parents weren't like

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wearing tinfoil hats or anything but

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they were certainly

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each of them in different veins open to

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these kinds of like different ideas

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and so growing up that was just normal

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to me you know um

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i don't know that they ever had i'm from

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oklahoma city

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so you know the murrah building bombing

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very close to us i don't know that they

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ever had any like

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detailed kind of conspiracies or ideas

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regarding that

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but they kind of have this general

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tendency to

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always be like oh you know there's more

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to the story as in kind of like to hand

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wave away

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like oh you know there's something

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happening behind the scenes like i think

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the whole discussion of

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the murrah bombing probably revolves

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around like

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the clintons and like their white water

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real estate

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thing and a lot of information that was

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supposedly stored there

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do you remember like when that happened

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you must be

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fairly young back then yeah so i'm 29

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now

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uh that happened in 1995 it would have

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been about like four or five

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so when when would you kind of be first

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aware that uh

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your parents were kind of a bit out of

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the mainstream

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honestly as a kid i didn't see it a lot

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of this stuff

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came to light like i said later you know

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the first

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big sort of maybe my parents aren't

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quite normal

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happen for me in college when i had that

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like you know

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required break away from them where it's

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like oh i'm

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going to college i'm on campus i'm in a

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dorm

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and just kind of having that time of

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relax

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or away from them and then also being

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exposed to new ideas new information

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different stuff

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you know it was enough for me to go hey

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this is different you know yeah i think

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differently

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um it's funny it kind of reminds me of a

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story i heard once

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uh which was i think just someone like

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npr

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this american life type thing and they

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were doing an episode about things

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people

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never realized that were wrong until

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they they talked to them

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talk to other people about it and there

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was this one girl who

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uh her family had chicken with every

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single meal

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and and she she loved it she thought

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that's what people did

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and she said for her it seemed perfectly

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normal and she went through her entire

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like

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young life believing that everybody

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had chicken every single meal yeah and

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then she went to college

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and she discovered this this whole new

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world of people who don't eat chicken

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and it was it was like a revelation to

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her and of course now looking back on it

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she realizes how how silly it was

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yeah and i wondering if like you going

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to college

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is a bit like that you you didn't have

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exposure

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to this this you know wider array of

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people and then all of a sudden

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you're forced into it and you know you

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get a realization well i think a huge

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part of it too is like

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it's uh sort of a mental heuristic you

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know like i mentioned earlier

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everything always just defaults back to

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oh there's something else there's one

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story you know what i mean

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it's kind of it's argumentatively moving

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the goalposts i guess you could say in

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the sense that it's always like oh well

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there's always something else

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that's outside of the conversation you

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know yeah

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and so no matter what it is any event

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and i think i mean that's what we're

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seeing now with so much stuff

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in the news where it's like it doesn't

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matter they always just

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go one further it's like there's nothing

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in there it's very tenuous

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it's just so by default you're saying

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like

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whatever's in the news is disinformation

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if something happens then the official

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story is the false story like

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dinner is always chicken so it's like

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this this default thing that you

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you think of yeah i think you know

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that's a great kind of example you

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brought up with

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the thing from npr like i think most

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people probably have those things in

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their life

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where they don't yeah until they go out

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in the world and they discover oh that

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is a little different

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you know but you would hope that it's

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maybe more

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for more people in the vein of the

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chicken for dinner thing versus the

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distrust of all possible information

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thing i think everyone has a story like

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that um

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my story like that is that when i came

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to america the first time

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uh i got a taxi from the airport to the

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uh

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place where i was staying and this was

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like 25 years ago

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and as we got on the freeway the guy in

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the taxi

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turned on his meter and i at the same

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time that happened i saw this sign

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uh by the side of the freeway her

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speedway entrance that said meter on

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and so i assumed being new to america

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that this sign meant

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that uh taxi drivers had to turn their

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meters on where they got on the freeway

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and

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uh this sign was to remind them

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uh and i believed this for the next uh

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i don't know 15 years or so until i

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mentioned it to my wife i said hey did

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you know what those signs are for those

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who remind taxi drivers to turn their

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meters on

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you know i was like like 40 or something

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by that point and i i genuinely believe

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this because it got stuck in my head

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but of course what what it is is a sign

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letting you know that the traffic is

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being meted by by the stop lights

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i don't know if you have them in your

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studies but it's a california

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thing on the on-ramps they have signs

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that light up to tell you when

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the traffic metering which means the the

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you know

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one car per red type thing getting onto

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the freeway thing

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is up and running and i just felt so

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incredibly stupid but yeah

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because it's uh it happened to me at a

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time when i was i was younger

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and uh uh i guess like he was an

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entirely new world i didn't know how

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america worked it was my first time in

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america and i saw this coincidence

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that led me to believe this thing which

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is entirely ridiculous in hindsight why

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they would have these special light up

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signs

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to remind taxi drivers to turn their

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meters on

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well and i think part of that is too

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like you come into it sometimes with

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these like

286
00:08:57,430 --> 00:08:55,360
neural contexts right like you said like

287
00:08:59,350 --> 00:08:57,440
everything had to be fascinating and new

288
00:09:01,430 --> 00:08:59,360
so like you refused to let anything be

289
00:09:03,110 --> 00:09:01,440
but all right like you're like oh

290
00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:03,120
you're like oh i can't you can't just be

291
00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:04,480
about like traffic lights it's gotta be

292
00:09:06,949 --> 00:09:05,440
like oh this

293
00:09:09,269 --> 00:09:06,959
they're courteously reminding taxi

294
00:09:10,949 --> 00:09:09,279
drivers like that's a really easy

295
00:09:13,110 --> 00:09:10,959
you know two bits of data that you

296
00:09:16,070 --> 00:09:13,120
should put them together indeed

297
00:09:17,590 --> 00:09:16,080
but they've held on to it for 15 years

298
00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:17,600
well there was nothing to

299
00:09:21,350 --> 00:09:19,120
i didn't i never thought about it

300
00:09:23,509 --> 00:09:21,360
afterwards

301
00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:23,519
yeah yeah which kind of you know reminds

302
00:09:27,990 --> 00:09:25,040
me of like something you mentioned

303
00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:28,000
is that you know you used to and we're

304
00:09:30,550 --> 00:09:29,200
probably getting a little bit ahead of

305
00:09:33,350 --> 00:09:30,560
ourselves here but if you

306
00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:33,360
if you didn't realize that for example

307
00:09:39,269 --> 00:09:37,360
there was a nist report about 9 11.

308
00:09:40,949 --> 00:09:39,279
then it would just kind of never any you

309
00:09:42,389 --> 00:09:40,959
know it never kind of occurs to you to

310
00:09:43,190 --> 00:09:42,399
think about it but let's talk about that

311
00:09:46,550 --> 00:09:43,200
later

312
00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:46,560
in the story so

313
00:09:50,630 --> 00:09:48,560
so you're growing up a young conspiracy

314
00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:50,640
theorist uh when your parents

315
00:09:53,829 --> 00:09:52,880
are both conspiracy theorists which is

316
00:09:55,509 --> 00:09:53,839
kind of interesting because

317
00:09:56,790 --> 00:09:55,519
you know a lot of people i talk to i ask

318
00:09:58,389 --> 00:09:56,800
them how do you get into conspiracy

319
00:09:59,750 --> 00:09:58,399
theories and they they say i watched a

320
00:10:01,430 --> 00:09:59,760
video

321
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:01,440
yeah and they watched that's kind of

322
00:10:06,389 --> 00:10:02,880
like dovetails later

323
00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:06,399
for sure right so would you say like the

324
00:10:12,550 --> 00:10:10,000
you you did did you did you have an

325
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:12,560
evolution of your

326
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:14,640
the type of conspiracy theorist you were

327
00:10:20,949 --> 00:10:16,720
after you went to college

328
00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:20,959
so i would say college for me and

329
00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:22,640
especially like

330
00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:25,680
middle to late freshman year

331
00:10:30,949 --> 00:10:28,800
when i was you know 20 19 20

332
00:10:31,910 --> 00:10:30,959
was probably like the nadir of

333
00:10:34,230 --> 00:10:31,920
conspiracy

334
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:34,240
sort of mindset and again i think a lot

335
00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:35,040
of that was

336
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:38,399
you know i my mind must have been like

337
00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:39,200
fertile

338
00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:41,760
for that kind of thinking given my

339
00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:42,880
parents my parents are very

340
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:44,240
untrustworthy of

341
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,240
other people the government i mean just

342
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:48,560
regular paranoid kind of

343
00:10:52,630 --> 00:10:51,360
thinking all the time and so i think i

344
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:52,640
had that kind of built

345
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:55,440
in and then this was still i mean it

346
00:10:59,829 --> 00:10:57,200
sounds ridiculous to call something like

347
00:11:00,310 --> 00:10:59,839
2011 like the early days of the internet

348
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,320
but

349
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:02,240
it was definitely a different internet

350
00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:03,839
time than that that makes

351
00:11:06,949 --> 00:11:05,760
sense i guess the early days of social

352
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:06,959
media in a way

353
00:11:10,790 --> 00:11:08,959
yeah it was kind of like the dawn of

354
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:10,800
like internet 2.0 like

355
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:14,000
that social media thing like youtube was

356
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:15,920
kind of coming into its stride as like

357
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:17,200
what we know of now

358
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:20,320
like this content platform and that is

359
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,200
when

360
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:23,440
yeah i remember being exposed to ideas

361
00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:24,800
like loose change

362
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:27,440
and things like that you know kind of at

363
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:28,560
the end of high school

364
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:32,399
maybe 15 through 18 that's when

365
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:34,959
and all of my friends were you know

366
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:36,800
people that were also into that in high

367
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,680
school

368
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:39,360
whether or not that was like you know

369
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:41,040
the only thing they cared about or if

370
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:42,399
they also had other hobbies and

371
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:43,600
activities you know it wasn't always the

372
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:44,640
same but

373
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:47,519
you know it was very much reinforced

374
00:11:50,470 --> 00:11:48,880
with my friends and be like oh look at

375
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:50,480
this new thing or tell me you watch this

376
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:51,519
video and

377
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:53,680
we have this kind of currency of youtube

378
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:56,800
videos if that makes any sense sure yeah

379
00:12:03,110 --> 00:11:59,920
and um you know you see

380
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:03,120
loose change and you're 16 or 15 or

381
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:04,480
whatever

382
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:06,560
and you're like oh my god how can people

383
00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:07,839
not know this

384
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:10,160
you know like it's it's revelatory you

385
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:11,360
think oh wow

386
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:13,920
it's so obvious it's right there and i

387
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:15,200
think

388
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:18,560
part of it is i mean this is like

389
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,240
likely what you know cult leaders and

390
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:22,720
stuff do as well

391
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:24,639
part of the mechanism of getting people

392
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:26,240
beguiled into that i think

393
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:30,000
is the sheer length you know like

394
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:33,440
erodes some of your you know abilities

395
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:34,720
to withstand

396
00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:37,680
otherwise spurious information just

397
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:39,600
because you don't have maybe the

398
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:42,639
uh fortitude you know after

399
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:45,600
two three four hours you know you're

400
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:47,120
just sitting there watching like

401
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:50,880
yeah okay yeah yeah

402
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:52,880
i mean i think arguably the same thing

403
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,200
happens with tv and news media but

404
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:57,040
that's a whole different kind of

405
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,639
conversation

406
00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:00,959
yeah yeah so it's like there's there's

407
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:02,000
so much stuff

408
00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:05,600
that in these these these videos

409
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:08,320
that you can't really just kind of focus

410
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:10,000
on one thing and then try to

411
00:13:13,030 --> 00:13:11,600
say you know debunk that one thing or

412
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:13,040
whatever because it's just it's just

413
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:15,200
overwhelming

414
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:17,440
and inundation and i think that's the

415
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:18,639
point

416
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:20,880
so was you was like a group of friends

417
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:21,839
that uh

418
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,519
you were kind of sharing these videos

419
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:25,440
with yeah i mean it was like my

420
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,920
main friend circle right did they have

421
00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:29,920
similar backgrounds to you in terms of

422
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,920
like you know the family backgrounds or

423
00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:33,279
did they kind of you think they came

424
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:36,160
came into it in a different way

425
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:37,839
um i think it was maybe a little

426
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:39,680
different uh

427
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:42,880
from what i recall in high school my

428
00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:45,279
friend group for the most part it was

429
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,480
pretty unremarkable

430
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,720
in the sense that it's like you know

431
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:50,639
other kids from the burbs

432
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,519
yeah you know kid's name like tyler

433
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:55,440
patrick that kind of thing just people

434
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:56,000
that

435
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:57,839
you know maybe skateboarded a little bit

436
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:59,120
or uh

437
00:14:03,430 --> 00:14:02,160
in bands or were an orchestra with me

438
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,440
and stuff like that

439
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:05,600
right so just typical teenagers and

440
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:07,519
they're just kind of

441
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:08,720
sharing these things because they're

442
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:10,639
cool and interesting yeah and i think

443
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:12,160
that's a huge part of it too

444
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:17,040
is like at that age your mind is

445
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:19,120
exploding trying to make connections or

446
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:20,959
see things you know we see this in like

447
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,560
a lot of the biographies of like really

448
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:24,240
intelligent people like davinci or

449
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:25,360
whatever is like

450
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:29,120
that very formative you know 15 to 25

451
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:30,160
age or whatever

452
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:32,320
your mind is like electric it's just

453
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:33,519
trying to do all these

454
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:35,279
fascinating things you know that's why

455
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:36,800
you have this kind of like

456
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:39,199
trope i think of young entrepreneurs

457
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:40,560
like steve jobs and

458
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:45,120
you know all those people and so

459
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:48,240
instead of channeling that maybe in some

460
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:51,199
better direction if that's fair it gets

461
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:52,959
channeled into

462
00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:56,000
just spinning these wheels

463
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:58,959
of weird thoughts yeah it's it's like

464
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:59,440
here

465
00:15:02,949 --> 00:15:00,560
i don't know maybe it's like some kind

466
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:02,959
of evolutionary thing that's when you

467
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:04,480
leave your parents you form your own

468
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,600
identity and they call it like the

469
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,680
formative years i don't know if that's

470
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,440
if that would be the formative years and

471
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:11,199
like when you go to college

472
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:12,880
yeah it kind of defines who you are as a

473
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:14,480
person or when you you know when you

474
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:15,519
leave high school and

475
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:17,120
enter the workforce or whatever it kind

476
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:20,000
of solidifies you as a person i know i

477
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:20,639
was very

478
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:22,480
personally kind of very volatile as a

479
00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:24,480
person back in my

480
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:26,959
late teens and early 20s that was when i

481
00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:28,560
kept a journal and i read the journal

482
00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:29,759
now and it's all full of

483
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:32,399
philosophical musings and uh thoughts

484
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:34,160
about the nature of the universe and how

485
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:35,920
to change the world and things like that

486
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:39,199
or so yeah i think everyone has that

487
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:41,120
or hopefully everyone has that kind of

488
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:42,880
like burgeoning

489
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:45,120
period or whatever but yeah sometimes

490
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:46,800
that gets channeled into weird places

491
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:48,160
and like

492
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:49,360
i think that's a lot of what we're

493
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:50,880
experiencing now especially you know

494
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:52,079
with like q another

495
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:53,279
and everything else that's going on with

496
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:55,440
that it's just humans want to be

497
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:56,959
creative they want to think

498
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:59,440
interesting thoughts and sometimes that

499
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:00,880
goes unchecked

500
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:04,320
and that might be an issue

501
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:05,920
how did you kind of develop from there

502
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,000
then you said like it was uh

503
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:10,800
the nadir of your conspiracism so that

504
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,600
would have been yeah

505
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,600
around like freshman end of freshman

506
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:15,360
year in college and what happened with

507
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,480
that

508
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:18,240
and this is probably something i

509
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:20,240
addressed in my email to you

510
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:22,320
to kind of give you a little background

511
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:24,240
is that

512
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:27,920
i was spending a lot of time

513
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:31,120
just on my laptop

514
00:16:37,509 --> 00:16:34,959
in my dorm room like four to six

515
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,519
hours a day sometimes sometimes like

516
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:39,120
deep into the night

517
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:42,160
you know researching this stuff

518
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,880
and you can get lost i mean it's the

519
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:46,880
rabbit hole we have that phrase for a

520
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:48,320
reason

521
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:52,399
um you know you start off

522
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:55,120
let me just try to see if i can remember

523
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:58,399
some of this or map it out like

524
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:59,759
you know one minute you maybe are

525
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:01,600
thinking to yourself huh

526
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:04,640
why do we have this pyramid on the

527
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:05,839
dollar

528
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,760
and the next thing you know six hours

529
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,520
later you're researching like

530
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,160
ancient sumerian religions and like

531
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:14,400
reptiles from outer space

532
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,400
who have you know like inseminated earth

533
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,319
women and they like

534
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,160
are here to take our gold and they're

535
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:22,480
all trans-dimensional and you

536
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:23,839
you're just reading all the stuff you're

537
00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:26,240
like okay and like

538
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:28,880
one thing leads to another thing you

539
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,400
know that's how you get on the i was on

540
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:32,400
like the david ike train and i don't

541
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:33,360
mean necessarily

542
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:36,240
like i believed 100 what this guy was

543
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:37,520
saying

544
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:40,559
but a lot of kind of what i think was

545
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:43,360
going on for me in that period

546
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:47,600
had maybe less to do with

547
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,200
thinking any of these things were true

548
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:50,960
necessarily and more to do with just

549
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:54,559
voraciously consuming the next thing

550
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:57,200
because it felt like there was never

551
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:57,840
enough

552
00:18:01,510 --> 00:18:00,400
information like i always had to just

553
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,520
find out the next

554
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:03,840
thing you know okay so it's

555
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,200
shape-shifting lizards but

556
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:07,760
what else and then it's like oh it's you

557
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:08,720
know nazi

558
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:11,440
13-foot giants that live under the crest

559
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:12,799
of the earth and you're like yes but

560
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:17,750
so when you were you doing this research

561
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:18,880
uh did you

562
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,000
did you write stuff down uh i don't

563
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:24,640
think so no and i didn't like save links

564
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:25,360
or anything

565
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:28,480
it was just a lot of searching

566
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:31,520
and going and searching and going right

567
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,880
um it's interesting because you know it

568
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:36,320
doesn't seem like you know if you're

569
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,120
studying

570
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:39,840
uh you're a student at college then you

571
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:40,240
would

572
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:45,679
just be consuming the content

573
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:48,480
yeah people describe it as research yeah

574
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:49,600
and i think that's

575
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:51,039
part of it now that i'm kind of thinking

576
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:52,720
about it out loud is like i think there

577
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,760
are a lot of people maybe

578
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:55,919
just like me who are participating in

579
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,919
what they perceive to be research but

580
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:00,240
rather it's just

581
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:02,960
no different than watching a lot of

582
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:03,760
netflix

583
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:06,960
you know what i mean it's just weirdly

584
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:07,600
flavored

585
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:11,360
netflix and certainly for me like that's

586
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:14,960
definitely what it's become now i mean

587
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:17,600
kind of like i mentioned with the whole

588
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,880
wallpaper thing

589
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:20,480
in the oval office or whatever it's like

590
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:22,160
i kind of scare things occasionally and

591
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:24,640
see like what's up or you know i try to

592
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:25,679
see

593
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,640
keep current i guess yeah but mostly as

594
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:30,320
a point of amusement you know

595
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:33,200
because kind of like going back to the

596
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:34,320
loose change and like

597
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:36,880
this waterfall of information that comes

598
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:37,440
over you

599
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:40,480
i think part of the tactic when it comes

600
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:41,600
to

601
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:43,280
for a lack of a better term this is

602
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:44,559
going to be kind of charged when it

603
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,400
comes to like indoctrinating people into

604
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:48,080
these beliefs

605
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:51,679
part of it is to just shotgun a lot of

606
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,760
really detailed information of them to

607
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:55,440
where it is so overwhelming

608
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:56,960
and i'm sure you've had this experience

609
00:20:01,270 --> 00:19:59,600
too like you don't have the opportunity

610
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:01,280
to stop them at every single point and

611
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:01,919
say

612
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:05,520
hold on let's address this one point

613
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:08,559
this is false because and they're 102

614
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:09,760
points down the road

615
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:12,320
you know what i mean and so your brain

616
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:14,000
kind of goes into this shutoff mode

617
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,039
where it's like

618
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:17,280
oh well i guess i mean dang this is so

619
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:19,120
much information it must be right

620
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:22,320
and it's like no yeah

621
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,320
have you heard the term gish gallop no

622
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:28,799
it's uh it's quite famous in kind of

623
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:29,440
debunking

624
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:32,159
skepticism circles and it was a

625
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:33,200
technique

626
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:36,400
uh invented by a guy named gish who was

627
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:37,679
a preacher

628
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,799
and he he used to debate you know

629
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:42,320
atheists or whatever or people who

630
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:44,320
weren't on the same religion as him

631
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:46,320
and he had a technique where he would

632
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:47,440
basically

633
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:50,159
uh just rattle off points one after

634
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:52,240
another like from the bible and from

635
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:55,200
you know from his work and whatever and

636
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:55,840
uh

637
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:57,360
he whenever he had a debate with

638
00:21:01,669 --> 00:20:59,919
somebody this was his his way of

639
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:01,679
basically swamping them

640
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:03,440
with so many points that they couldn't

641
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,760
possibly respond to all of them

642
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:07,360
yeah though he would he would fire off

643
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:10,000
like like 15 or 20 things just in one

644
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:12,080
response to one question and then

645
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,679
the person would just kind of try to

646
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:15,200
pick one of those and

647
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:17,440
do a detailed response to it and then he

648
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:19,440
would just come back with the

649
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:20,960
the 14 that they missed and then add

650
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:22,960
another 15 on top of that

651
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,440
and this is something that you see in a

652
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:27,120
lot of people who are spreading

653
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:30,080
some kind of disinformation or who want

654
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:30,720
to

655
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:32,799
you know persuade people of their point

656
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:33,840
of view

657
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:36,000
and aren't perhaps entirely honest about

658
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,280
what they're doing

659
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:39,760
is that they just swamp them with these

660
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,840
things like if you look at flat earth

661
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:43,440
for example in a completely ridiculous

662
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:45,280
example but there's there's a famous

663
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:46,480
thing which is uh

664
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:49,760
200 proofs the earth is flat by by eric

665
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:50,559
dubay

666
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:52,480
which is based on an older thing 100

667
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:55,840
proofs the earth is flat from the 1800s

668
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,640
but you're having a lot of things in

669
00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:00,400
some ways it just overloads the brain

670
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:01,200
and you just

671
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:02,640
you just can't respond to it and you

672
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,200
almost kind of you just give up in a way

673
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:07,520
well i think that's like kind of talking

674
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:08,880
about that that's like what we see even

675
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:09,440
just

676
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:12,400
on tv like on the news you know like

677
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:13,679
this is kind of

678
00:22:16,750 --> 00:22:15,280
like neil postman's criticism of

679
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:16,760
television in the sense that it

680
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,600
decontextualizes everything by just

681
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:21,679
rapid firing this information in you

682
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:23,440
with no context

683
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:25,039
and so then your context becomes the

684
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,360
universe of all contexts not because

685
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:29,440
you chose to make that but just because

686
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,240
the brain kind of defaults to that

687
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,159
and so you know you see this i think a

688
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:36,480
lot of like news now where

689
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:39,039
they'll go to discuss a point but rather

690
00:22:41,909 --> 00:22:41,039
since they only have 90 seconds or two

691
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:41,919
minutes or whatever

692
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:44,720
it becomes let me say a bunch of really

693
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:46,480
sensational kind of sentences that will

694
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:48,080
make great sound bites

695
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,760
and the other person that they brought

696
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:51,600
on kind of almost as

697
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:54,159
the sacrificial character goes hey well

698
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:55,760
let me talk about that one thing with a

699
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:57,520
little nuance and they're like nope

700
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:00,720
it's over and so you get one sentence

701
00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:02,080
yeah people kind of i think get this

702
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:04,200
very at that point like flat

703
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:05,600
interpretations

704
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:08,640
of things you're just going

705
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:11,840
on yeah you certainly see that in the

706
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:13,919
news and i've been watching uh

707
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:17,280
um npr news uh which which is

708
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:18,400
better in some regards you know

709
00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:20,799
obviously it's got kind of a a liberal

710
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:22,159
bias to a degree

711
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:24,159
but i i found myself when i started

712
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:25,520
watching it i was i was kind of

713
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:27,120
surprised at just how long they

714
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,760
they would spend talking about a thing

715
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:30,960
because i i

716
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:33,919
kind of expected this uh very rapid fire

717
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:35,120
thing where they would ask them two

718
00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:36,320
questions and then move on to the next

719
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:37,440
person but sometimes they'll talk to

720
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:38,880
someone for like five minutes and i'd be

721
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:39,360
like

722
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:42,559
something

723
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:44,960
because your expectations become this

724
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:46,000
this just kind of

725
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:49,600
sound bite type information stream

726
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:52,559
well and i think i mean again neil

727
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,240
postman talks about this a lot but kind

728
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:56,159
of an interesting point is

729
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:58,240
you know back in the day like in the

730
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:59,600
middle of the 19th century when

731
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:01,039
presidents had debates

732
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:02,720
those are like whole damn things you

733
00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:04,080
know like lincoln

734
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:06,320
would have three hours the other guy had

735
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:08,240
three hours then lincoln had 90 minutes

736
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:09,760
the other guy had 90 minutes

737
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:11,919
then it was like 30 minutes 30 minutes

738
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:13,440
that was the day

739
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:17,039
and so you definitely

740
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:18,880
have an opportunity to have much more

741
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,039
nuanced understandings of things

742
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:23,600
versus now it's just like you know throw

743
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,400
two people

744
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:27,200
up and they've got 60 minutes two hours

745
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:28,240
maybe and

746
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:28,960
they're just trying to hit the

747
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:32,400
highlights and so i think

748
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:34,559
you know but this goes way off into like

749
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,000
my ideas about

750
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,320
i think we have a poor relationship with

751
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,640
certain medias

752
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:42,880
currently you know like i think that's

753
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:44,240
part of

754
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:46,640
it's structural like this conspiracy

755
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:48,240
thinking and stuff like that

756
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:51,039
is maybe endemic to the ways that we are

757
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:53,039
communicating in the 21st century

758
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:56,320
and maybe not having like stop gaps

759
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:59,039
or fail saves or something you know

760
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:00,240
because we're living in this really

761
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,080
frothy statistical information-rich

762
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:06,480
environment yeah very complicated

763
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:07,600
environment

764
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:10,000
it's complicated and we didn't have the

765
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:12,080
access to all this information before so

766
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,480
it was

767
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:15,120
we had a much simpler view of the world

768
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:16,080
and i think

769
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:18,799
part of the issue is like our brains you

770
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:19,279
know

771
00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:21,279
we're not wired for statistical kind of

772
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:22,400
thinking or why are

773
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:24,559
this like you know linear sort of

774
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:25,760
connective

775
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:28,000
narrative that's why people crave these

776
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:29,840
patterns people crave

777
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:31,679
these stories we're i mean we tell

778
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:33,360
stories that's part of like homeless

779
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,360
savings we tell stories that's

780
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,480
part of having these cool brains and

781
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,320
we want to connect those dots and so we

782
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:42,240
see all these data points we see all

783
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:43,760
this stuff happening in the universe

784
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,480
we're like

785
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:47,200
oh let's make a story out of it do you

786
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:47,520
see

787
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:49,919
why these people are obviously running a

788
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:51,840
pedophile cabal out of a pizza shop and

789
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:52,400
you're like

790
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:56,159
i didn't before but i do know like

791
00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:58,240
so you were you were you know deep into

792
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:59,200
it you know you always said you were

793
00:26:02,070 --> 00:25:59,919
watching

794
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:02,080
uh videos like four to six hours a day

795
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:03,440
or more

796
00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:07,039
and yeah then things changed

797
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,039
um i mean it's one of those things it's

798
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:11,200
going to sound

799
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:12,960
weird because i i mean i really can't

800
00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:15,520
describe it exactly

801
00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:18,640
um i think i

802
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:22,640
noticed like maybe some strange

803
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:24,559
relationships with some people in my

804
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,960
life

805
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:26,559
because i was a little obsessed with

806
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,720
some of these ideas

807
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:30,400
um and it's one of those things you know

808
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:31,760
it doesn't make for very polite

809
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,840
conversation right so

810
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:35,600
it's running in your head all the time

811
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:37,520
you're thinking about it

812
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:41,440
but because it requires like

813
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:45,120
so much to just bring people up to speed

814
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:46,480
if that makes any sense

815
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:48,720
yeah you can't just like go and say oh

816
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:50,159
well hey this guy that actually just

817
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:52,159
wears teal track suits and

818
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:55,679
bleeps and wack [\h__\h] yeah

819
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:58,880
you just can't they have no context yeah

820
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:01,200
understand what you're saying you said i

821
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:02,080
think that

822
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:04,080
reinforces that like isolation that a

823
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:05,600
lot of people run into with this is

824
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:06,559
because you're like well nobody

825
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,679
understands me and i

826
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:09,200
hope the only person understands the

827
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:11,120
truth so i gotta find other people maybe

828
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:12,320
they're like me

829
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,600
and i got to this point where i was like

830
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:15,200
man i feel like i may be alienating some

831
00:27:19,269 --> 00:27:16,400
people in my life

832
00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:19,279
and you know several nights maybe of

833
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,080
just

834
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:22,320
doing this from 11 o'clock at night

835
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,919
until six in the morning

836
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:25,440
and then sleeping a few hours and going

837
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:26,960
to class

838
00:27:30,149 --> 00:27:29,440
it was after one of those kind of like

839
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:30,159
all night

840
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:32,720
youtube binges or something i just

841
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:33,760
looked up and like

842
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:37,760
i'm i'm tired and what was the [\h__\h]

843
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:38,320
point

844
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:41,200
you know like it just kind of dawned on

845
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:42,559
me i was like look

846
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:45,360
this is all fascinating maybe some of

847
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:47,200
it's true maybe none of it's true i was

848
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:49,039
like and this is what i told you i was

849
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:49,760
like

850
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:51,520
even if it's all true every single bit

851
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:53,440
of whatever

852
00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:56,399
my like particular conspiracy of choice

853
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:58,159
was at that time

854
00:28:01,590 --> 00:28:00,240
like what was i going to do about it you

855
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:01,600
know it's like a lot of these

856
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:06,080
especially the more you delve into

857
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:08,240
the like macro conspiracies like the

858
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:09,360
ones that encompass

859
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:12,720
everything the universal catholic

860
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:15,840
conspiracies right illuminati exactly

861
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,919
once you get into those

862
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:20,000
you really have to ask yourself like

863
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:22,000
okay i mean if there really is this like

864
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:22,960
society of

865
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:25,520
masons or whomever that have been

866
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,200
guiding humanity for

867
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:29,200
tens of thousands of years or whatever

868
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:30,960
the idea is it's like

869
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:34,000
how is me on a message board at

870
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:36,559
3 30 in the morning like am i doing

871
00:28:40,149 --> 00:28:37,120
anything

872
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:40,159
like or am i just if it's true i can't

873
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:40,880
do anything

874
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:42,320
because these guys have had this [\h__\h]

875
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:44,399
unlocked for thousands of years

876
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:46,480
and if it's not true it's a waste of

877
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:48,399
time like then i'm literally

878
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:50,960
using my real time my real energy my

879
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:52,480
real life force

880
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:57,039
on something that's just not real

881
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:58,880
yeah that's really interesting because

882
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:00,399
it kind of

883
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:03,840
gives me the idea that uh realizing you

884
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:05,919
couldn't do anything about it

885
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:08,640
uh kind of gave you mental permission to

886
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:09,120
kind of

887
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:11,120
question whether it was true or not

888
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,240
because if it's

889
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:14,559
if if you felt like you could do

890
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,360
something about

891
00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:17,760
it then it would be very important to

892
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:18,799
discover

893
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:21,360
uh you know the the truth behind the

894
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:22,480
world and so you would

895
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,360
you wouldn't want to let doubt creep in

896
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:27,360
because you were so convinced

897
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:29,279
that it was this really really important

898
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:30,880
thing the way you were actually you know

899
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:32,640
saving the world by exposing these

900
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:33,440
things

901
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:35,919
but if you then can't if you then think

902
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:37,120
oh well there's nothing i could do about

903
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:38,880
it anyway

904
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:40,480
perhaps you don't worry about it so much

905
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:42,159
and then you get to actually start

906
00:29:46,389 --> 00:29:43,520
analyzing it more

907
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:46,399
i don't know yeah i think that's

908
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:48,159
interesting for sure

909
00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:50,720
yeah i i hear people kind of have

910
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:52,559
conspiracy fatigue

911
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:54,799
and this especially with things like the

912
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:55,919
911

913
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,399
people uh they they've been believing

914
00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:00,480
that 911 was an inside job for

915
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:03,679
like nearly 20 years now and

916
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:06,960
uh at a certain point they they realize

917
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,520
that

918
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,679
you know he's not going to change the

919
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,279
there's no traction and the

920
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:13,200
the theory is kind of not not going

921
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:14,399
anywhere

922
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:16,720
and they they move away from it but it's

923
00:30:21,350 --> 00:30:17,760
not clear if they

924
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:21,360
just simply get tired of it

925
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:23,279
and just you still believe it but just

926
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:26,880
move away from it or if they actually

927
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,679
start to question it and uh and start to

928
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:31,200
think that it's not true

929
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:34,080
i mean when you you you went through

930
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,600
this change yourself

931
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:37,200
and you thought like you know what's the

932
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:39,200
point if it's true or

933
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:42,000
if it's false you know same same deal

934
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,279
did you

935
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:45,360
then start to change in the way you

936
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:46,720
actually believed that there was

937
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:48,880
something going on

938
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:53,200
so i think it happened

939
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:55,120
gradually and i think for most people it

940
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:56,399
probably does

941
00:31:01,750 --> 00:31:00,399
hopefully um but for me it was like that

942
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:01,760
first kind of night

943
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:04,159
of being like i've got other things i

944
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:05,440
got to do

945
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:08,480
i literally just wasted wasted

946
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:10,720
i guess but like you know eight nine

947
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:12,880
hours of my night of my life staying up

948
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:13,440
all night

949
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:16,480
looking into this stuff and i really

950
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,080
have things to do today you know what i

951
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:19,919
mean like it's legitimately going to

952
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:21,279
affect me

953
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:23,200
so it was like that was the first big

954
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:25,279
kind of aha moment of like

955
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,120
maybe this is unhealthy maybe this is

956
00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:29,600
like a poor

957
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:31,279
thing and i'd already kind of picked up

958
00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:32,720
on you know

959
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:35,200
people maybe being weirded out by some

960
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:36,000
of this stuff

961
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:37,600
and like like i said the general

962
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:40,159
alienation of other people in my life

963
00:31:45,110 --> 00:31:41,919
and so that was kind of the big aha for

964
00:31:47,909 --> 00:31:45,120
me where i was like look i'm just gonna

965
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:47,919
you know shut it down not pay attention

966
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:50,240
to any of this stuff for a while

967
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:52,480
and you know because a lot of these

968
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:53,440
things are

969
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:56,000
predicated in some way like paranoia or

970
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:56,799
fear

971
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:59,360
like it would come back up occasionally

972
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:00,000
you know

973
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:02,640
over time but just like anything else

974
00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:04,720
like the cycles were

975
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:07,120
greater each time so it started out like

976
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,760
i wouldn't think about for a day

977
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:11,519
and you know the day turned into a week

978
00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:12,799
into a month

979
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:13,919
and then it got to the point where you

980
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:16,080
know it had been so long that i would

981
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:17,519
look back on some of that and be like

982
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:19,519
that was kind of ridiculous yeah that

983
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:20,799
was

984
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:23,840
maybe not my proudest moment

985
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:26,320
but again i think part of it is you get

986
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:27,279
so into

987
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:28,559
especially again like i said the

988
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:30,559
universal conspiracies

989
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:32,720
whatever they are the rothschilds the

990
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:33,600
jews

991
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:35,919
you get to a point where some of it just

992
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:37,279
doesn't seem tenable

993
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,519
if that makes any sense yeah yeah i

994
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:41,360
think that's maybe

995
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:44,159
like how would it work i would say yeah

996
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,000
like that would even do this

997
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:48,480
the curious tinkerer in my brain is

998
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:49,760
always like

999
00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:51,760
detail-wise like how would it work you

1000
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:53,600
know like

1001
00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:56,559
i often tell people that i'm like

1002
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,919
simultaneously the most

1003
00:33:01,110 --> 00:32:59,760
prejudiced and skeptical person they'll

1004
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:01,120
meet in a day because like i want to

1005
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:02,480
bring someone's punch like

1006
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:04,640
i'm there for it like tell me about your

1007
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:05,600
thing

1008
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:07,519
and then i want to pick it apart because

1009
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:09,440
i want to see exactly like how it could

1010
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:11,600
be true or not true

1011
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,760
and i think the problem is people don't

1012
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:15,200
often get to that pick it apart

1013
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:17,039
stage you know like you said like how

1014
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:18,960
does it work because

1015
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:20,960
at the end of the day when you really

1016
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:22,960
start peeling apart some of these

1017
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:25,039
larger conspiracies or more engrossing

1018
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:26,480
conspiracies

1019
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:30,240
like the idea that some of these things

1020
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:32,000
would be covered up or how they would

1021
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,399
work

1022
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:34,720
in the real world it's like this would

1023
00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:35,760
involve what

1024
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,200
300 400 500 000 people and they're all

1025
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:41,600
in on it that seems doubtful how would

1026
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:43,039
500 000 people

1027
00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:45,039
keep something like that quiet yeah and

1028
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,640
that's something that uh

1029
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,000
you know i always bring up with things

1030
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:50,640
like 911 when you consider that pretty

1031
00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:51,600
much

1032
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:54,080
over half of all fbi agents were tasked

1033
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:55,519
with investigating

1034
00:34:02,310 --> 00:33:59,200
911 so either the they were entirely

1035
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:02,320
inept or

1036
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:04,720
half of the fbi or the entire fbi was in

1037
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:06,080
on it and of course some people

1038
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:08,000
will will go with that explanation and

1039
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:09,359
they will say that

1040
00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:12,560
the millions of people are on these

1041
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:13,440
conspiracy

1042
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,280
theories yeah like you know if you

1043
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:18,079
already think that the entire news media

1044
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:20,639
is uh is is telling you lies on a daily

1045
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:21,359
basis which

1046
00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:22,800
you know of course you know there's

1047
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:24,480
various shades of that but on the

1048
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:25,839
extreme level

1049
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:28,639
of the the news media being complicit in

1050
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:30,879
covering up things like 911 conspiracy

1051
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:31,520
theories

1052
00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:34,159
or chemtrails or things like that it's

1053
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:35,359
it's a lot of people

1054
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:39,040
and uh it's pretty implausible

1055
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:40,639
and some of the the reasons people give

1056
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,240
for that uh

1057
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:44,480
being plausible don't seem plausible at

1058
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:46,320
all to me they say oh people are afraid

1059
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:48,560
of losing their pensions so they keep

1060
00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:51,679
quiet this is the the weakest excuse

1061
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:54,159
excuse possible well i think you've

1062
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:55,359
probably mentioned this

1063
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:57,920
before too like there are certain events

1064
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:59,359
that occur

1065
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:00,960
that are then subsequently taken

1066
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:03,520
advantage of in some capacity

1067
00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:06,000
and then that is a foothold for people

1068
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:06,880
to be like ah

1069
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:10,720
see who benefits

1070
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:12,079
exactly and it's one of those things

1071
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,320
like especially having done

1072
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:16,320
more and more research on 911 it's like

1073
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:18,000
look this is very likely

1074
00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:20,000
you know something that just happened

1075
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:22,079
you know 19 terrorists

1076
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:25,359
al qaeda they did this thing and then

1077
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:25,920
other people

1078
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:27,599
capitalized on it yeah there's

1079
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:29,359
definitely a conversation we had about

1080
00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:30,240
like

1081
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:32,800
media capitalizing on that of government

1082
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:34,000
and executive branch

1083
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,040
capitalizing on terror

1084
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:39,920
there's absolutely something we need to

1085
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:40,480
discuss

1086
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:43,680
as a post-industrial society about

1087
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,240
how we respond to those things sure

1088
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:47,839
people be able to leverage that

1089
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:50,880
in such a way of course but to get to

1090
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:53,280
the point where

1091
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:57,040
you're saying like laser beams missiles

1092
00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:00,480
aliens it's like that ain't it

1093
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:02,320
it's quite amazing what people will will

1094
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:03,599
accept and i think

1095
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:05,839
in a way you gave yourself some space

1096
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:07,520
which then allowed you to revisit things

1097
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:07,920
with

1098
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,839
fresh perspective it's like in the old

1099
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:11,520
saying that you know the best way to

1100
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:13,359
improve your writing when you're writing

1101
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:15,280
something or whatever you're doing or

1102
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:17,200
composing music or whatever

1103
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:20,000
is to put it aside for a few days or

1104
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:21,520
even a week or so and then come back and

1105
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:23,599
look at it with fresh eyes

1106
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:27,200
and you you can't make much progress on

1107
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:28,400
things like that if you're just

1108
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,400
completely in it and you don't have this

1109
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,960
this this perspective from the outside

1110
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,240
so just the fact that you got

1111
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:36,640
tired and gave yourself a bit of time

1112
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:38,000
off and then came back

1113
00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:39,440
it's actually something that i recommend

1114
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:41,359
people try doing like you know

1115
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:43,520
just don't do it for a week and then

1116
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,560
come back and

1117
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:47,040
and look at it again and uh see if it

1118
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:48,400
feels different

1119
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:50,240
and i think a lot of it i mean it's an

1120
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:53,040
addiction you know it's

1121
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:55,520
um i think people are having the same

1122
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:57,040
kind of problem now with like their

1123
00:37:01,270 --> 00:36:59,200
phones when it comes to

1124
00:37:03,670 --> 00:37:01,280
information addiction or just like

1125
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:03,680
sensory stimulation addiction

1126
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:05,359
because i think everyone's kind of

1127
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:07,119
gotten to the point you know where

1128
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:08,800
you look at your phone for the umpteenth

1129
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:10,240
time of the day like why

1130
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:12,240
did i just do that you know it's like

1131
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:13,760
you just got the twitch

1132
00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:15,760
you just gotta do it i think it's the

1133
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:17,520
same with some of these thoughts and

1134
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:18,640
these ideas

1135
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:19,599
because you're just sitting there

1136
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:22,000
refreshing forums and like constantly

1137
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:22,480
trying to

1138
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,160
find that next thing and it's an

1139
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:26,880
addiction yeah i know i i have a problem

1140
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:27,680
too

1141
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:31,200
yeah it's uh yeah i i'm i'm on twitter

1142
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,200
and i'm on facebook and i'm on my

1143
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:35,839
metabunk forum i mean i deleted

1144
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,720
instagram like

1145
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:38,480
a couple months ago so i was like i got

1146
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:40,400
stuff to do in my life

1147
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:42,800
i deleted what was it uh world of

1148
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:43,760
warcraft

1149
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:47,119
uh the video game because i i could feel

1150
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:48,880
myself getting addicted to it

1151
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:51,200
when i started playing it and i could

1152
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:52,960
feel the repetitive behavior and the

1153
00:37:56,950 --> 00:37:54,560
little rewards that it gives you and i

1154
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:56,960
could feel myself getting sucked into it

1155
00:38:00,710 --> 00:37:59,119
so yeah it's kind of like one instance

1156
00:38:01,430 --> 00:38:00,720
of like looking down the clock and it

1157
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:01,440
being

1158
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:02,960
seven o'clock and then looking back

1159
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:04,320
again and it's four hours later you're

1160
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:05,440
like oh what

1161
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:07,040
and then you're like okay maybe pump the

1162
00:38:11,589 --> 00:38:10,000
brakes yeah now i can totally see that i

1163
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:11,599
used to be addicted to the news when i

1164
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:12,800
was young

1165
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:15,280
and i actually used to watch the news tv

1166
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:16,960
news between like five o'clock and

1167
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:18,240
eleven o'clock

1168
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:20,079
uh you know on days when i had nothing

1169
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:21,359
else to do i would just sit in front of

1170
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,200
the tv and watch watch the news on

1171
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:25,359
in in the uk because the different

1172
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:26,800
channels would have the news programs at

1173
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:27,839
different times

1174
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:29,200
and i think there was a one hour break

1175
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:30,240
in the middle where i could have my

1176
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:31,119
dinner

1177
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:33,599
but yeah i can totally understand this

1178
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:35,760
this feeling of being being sucked into

1179
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:39,040
this uh this information stream

1180
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:41,920
which yeah i guess it somehow triggers

1181
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,320
little

1182
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,640
receptors in your brain to uh release

1183
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:46,400
little bits of chemicals when they

1184
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:48,880
they see the recognition well i think in

1185
00:38:51,109 --> 00:38:49,760
a lot of ways

1186
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:51,119
kind of talking about my collegiate

1187
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:53,599
experience i was blessed because

1188
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:57,040
i didn't watch tv in college you know

1189
00:39:01,829 --> 00:39:00,079
i think growing up like i've throughout

1190
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,839
my life maybe had this threat of like

1191
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:03,440
training addiction for another

1192
00:39:10,109 --> 00:39:06,960
whatever that might be at the time and

1193
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:10,119
um most recently it's kind of

1194
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,400
transmorphified itself into a caffeine

1195
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:14,240
addiction you know which is right

1196
00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:17,520
socially acceptable so it works

1197
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,920
um but you know earlier years 13 to 18

1198
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:23,760
or whatever tv was the thing you know i

1199
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:25,680
can think back now

1200
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:28,880
to just watching all kinds of stuff

1201
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:31,200
into the middle of the night you know

1202
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,400
and just

1203
00:39:35,910 --> 00:39:34,880
just like oh well three companies on

1204
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:35,920
roseanne

1205
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:37,920
should watch another episode it's like

1206
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,119
why

1207
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,760
oh yeah i think you know 18 19 year old

1208
00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:43,440
you saw some of that behavior is like

1209
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:45,599
look this is probably not meaningful to

1210
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:48,079
you and so i stopped watching

1211
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:49,760
tv in college i was just like yeah i'm

1212
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:51,760
gonna take time off of tv

1213
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:54,800
it was kind of a decision i made and

1214
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:57,680
for like four or five years didn't watch

1215
00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:59,200
tv in college really i mean i would

1216
00:40:01,829 --> 00:40:00,800
watch it if i was like at a friend's

1217
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:01,839
house or

1218
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,440
obviously we were watching a movie or

1219
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,520
something but this idea of just like

1220
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:08,240
passive engagement with television

1221
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:10,560
and that really kind of reset me going

1222
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,440
into my

1223
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,760
like mid to late 20s to where now it's

1224
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:15,520
like

1225
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:17,359
going out to restaurants which obviously

1226
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:19,040
no one's done like a year or so but you

1227
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:20,400
know what i mean like going out

1228
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:23,440
places if there are just all these tvs

1229
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:24,560
on

1230
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,800
it's very distracting to me but other

1231
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:28,400
people have normalized that

1232
00:40:34,309 --> 00:40:31,920
that that's you know a kind of baseline

1233
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:34,319
din of just information at them and i'm

1234
00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:35,040
like this is

1235
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:37,040
i can't do this this is very stimulating

1236
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:38,079
you know

1237
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,079
yeah so some people have the tv on in

1238
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:43,040
their house all day long

1239
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:44,800
from morning till the evening which you

1240
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:46,560
know i think obviously a lot of people

1241
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:48,800
find that perfectly normal and they they

1242
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:50,720
can get along with that but

1243
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:53,520
but for me it's uh i i turned on the tv

1244
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:55,280
when i want to watch something specific

1245
00:40:58,950 --> 00:40:56,880
and then uh just do it for a certain

1246
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:58,960
period of time and the idea of having

1247
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:00,400
the tv on all day long

1248
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:03,119
has been very distracting for me and i

1249
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:04,800
don't like it at all i can't

1250
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:06,800
because when the tv's on i get sucked

1251
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:07,839
into it and there it is

1252
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:10,319
yeah i'm walking away yeah i can't if

1253
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:11,920
i'm trying to work on something i end up

1254
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:12,880
just watching the tv

1255
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,200
instead but i wonder if like that kind

1256
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:17,440
of influences people's mindset

1257
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:19,440
in terms of how susceptible they are for

1258
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,040
conspiracy theories

1259
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,520
if if they're so used to just consuming

1260
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:25,440
a stream of information all the time

1261
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:26,319
like if they

1262
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:28,079
they grew up and they have you know fox

1263
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:29,920
news or whatever or cnn or even just

1264
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:31,280
like abc

1265
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:34,480
on the tv all day long they would kind

1266
00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:36,079
of expect to have

1267
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,800
an information stream all the time just

1268
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:40,560
in the background

1269
00:41:44,550 --> 00:41:42,880
and you know youtube would be a natural

1270
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:44,560
next step for that you just

1271
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:47,119
sure you just people do that now yeah

1272
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:48,079
people in my generation

1273
00:41:52,470 --> 00:41:49,839
for sure you know you just it's all

1274
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:52,480
youtube and you're just chain videos

1275
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:54,000
and youtube's like we got this really

1276
00:41:57,030 --> 00:41:55,520
awesome algorithm it's going to tell you

1277
00:41:59,190 --> 00:41:57,040
what you want to watch next you're like

1278
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:59,200
sure you want to watch that yeah i think

1279
00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:00,880
that's an interesting point um

1280
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:02,400
i don't know this kind of goes back to

1281
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:04,079
my whole conversation with television

1282
00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:06,000
and neil postman and stuff but

1283
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:08,800
there's a guy named jerry mander who

1284
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:09,680
wrote

1285
00:42:12,370 --> 00:42:11,200
a book called four arguments for the

1286
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:12,380
elimination of television

1287
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:13,520
[Music]

1288
00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:16,560
and he wrote it in the late 70s

1289
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:18,800
and so obviously some of the data is

1290
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:19,680
different

1291
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:21,680
now we probably hopefully have more

1292
00:42:27,109 --> 00:42:23,760
information but i mean it's still a very

1293
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:27,119
cogent kind of argument about this

1294
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:29,760
medium right because now the only

1295
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:31,359
conversation that's had is

1296
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:33,920
the content on the medium not the medium

1297
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:34,480
as such

1298
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:36,000
we don't really ever critique the medium

1299
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:38,720
as such you know back in the 50s and 60s

1300
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:40,400
and 70s people were still having that

1301
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:41,680
conversation about like

1302
00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:43,280
is tv really a good idea for a

1303
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:45,680
democratic society now it's just like

1304
00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:47,839
should we have two titties on tv and

1305
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:48,720
it's like

1306
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:51,119
different realms but in it he talks

1307
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:52,640
about how

1308
00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:55,280
um they've done studies to show that

1309
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:57,119
when you're watching television and i

1310
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:57,680
assume

1311
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:59,280
all of this likely holds true for

1312
00:43:01,190 --> 00:43:00,640
youtube videos and things like that i

1313
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:01,200
mean it's

1314
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:03,359
very much the same kind of idea because

1315
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:04,800
you're participating in only

1316
00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:08,880
two sensory engagements sight and sound

1317
00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:11,880
it kind of puts your mind in like this

1318
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:13,839
quasi-hypnotic state

1319
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:16,319
you know they've checked brain

1320
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:17,760
wavelengths and that's what they

1321
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:18,880
discovered is that

1322
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:21,760
you kind of become more docile and i

1323
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:22,480
mean

1324
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:24,560
more receptive whatever you're just

1325
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:27,359
ingesting or receiving constantly

1326
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:30,720
and so i think honestly

1327
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,960
in my kind of opinion that's maybe where

1328
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:34,560
we get this idea of like

1329
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:36,560
messages brainwashing or whatever it's

1330
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:37,760
like

1331
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,680
yeah that kind of idea maybe is

1332
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:43,280
occurring at some level in the sense

1333
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:43,920
that people are

1334
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:47,040
rolled into this docile mental state

1335
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,280
to where they're then just like fed you

1336
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:52,000
know bits of information and sound bites

1337
00:43:55,750 --> 00:43:52,720
that they

1338
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:55,760
take as you know rule and law in fact

1339
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:58,640
uh but the idea that it's like you know

1340
00:44:01,670 --> 00:44:00,319
they're flashing a picture of a hot dog

1341
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:01,680
they're like i gotta go buy a hot dog

1342
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:02,880
like

1343
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:07,680
it's working exactly yeah

1344
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:08,880
and i don't think that there's some

1345
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:11,520
grand ball of you know

1346
00:44:14,950 --> 00:44:13,359
nielsen report people who are like ah

1347
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:14,960
we're going to brainwash the masses i

1348
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:16,160
think

1349
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:19,280
it's just something that's kind of again

1350
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:21,839
endemic to the technology that we're not

1351
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:22,640
aware of

1352
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:23,920
and it's the same with social media

1353
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:26,400
where it's like there are certain

1354
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:29,920
things that are maybe happening in that

1355
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:31,839
technological sphere that we're not

1356
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:33,680
privy to we don't know because it's only

1357
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:34,720
10 years old

1358
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:37,680
you know and so we've got a lot of maybe

1359
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,079
blindness to these things

1360
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,400
it's 17 years old but it's evolving i

1361
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:44,480
think a lot faster than tv did i mean tv

1362
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:45,359
was uh

1363
00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:47,200
although tv has evolved obviously quite

1364
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:49,359
a bit if you watch some of the old tv

1365
00:44:53,030 --> 00:44:51,119
it's like you know ridiculous variety

1366
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:53,040
shows with people playing the piano and

1367
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:55,040
uh singing which you don't you don't see

1368
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:56,400
that anymore

1369
00:45:02,309 --> 00:44:59,760
uh but let's let's move on to um

1370
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:02,319
like you know one of the reasons you

1371
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:04,000
talked to me was that you read my book

1372
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:07,119
yeah what you emailed me and uh you said

1373
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,800
it kind of gave you kind of a new

1374
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:10,720
perspective i guess on some of the stuff

1375
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:11,680
that you

1376
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:14,079
had been percolating in the background

1377
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:15,440
yeah um

1378
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:18,560
kind of the story was i've made you know

1379
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:20,880
i read books all the time and i've made

1380
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:23,040
kind of a reading list of just

1381
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:26,240
conspiracy theory books for conspiracy

1382
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,160
sort of thinking um

1383
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:32,880
and i think yours was of all those books

1384
00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:34,319
maybe like five or six books where i was

1385
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:35,760
like i just want to read something about

1386
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:36,480
this

1387
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:38,079
it was the only one that had an audio

1388
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:39,520
book available so i was like

1389
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:41,440
okay well i'll read that first or listen

1390
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:42,800
to it right there all right

1391
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:45,599
yeah um because especially at the end of

1392
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:46,640
2020

1393
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:49,280
i think it was very clear that there's a

1394
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:50,960
lot of just

1395
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:53,760
that mindset in the world now and as

1396
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:54,720
somebody who had

1397
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,599
come kind of from that it was very

1398
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,520
readily apparent to me where it's like

1399
00:46:04,150 --> 00:46:01,440
what used to be very fringe sort of

1400
00:46:07,589 --> 00:46:04,160
ideas have now been moved just like

1401
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:07,599
casual conversation points and like

1402
00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:10,079
people that i just assumed would never

1403
00:46:13,589 --> 00:46:11,680
in my regular life

1404
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:13,599
have contact with some of these ideas or

1405
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:15,680
information we're bringing it up like it

1406
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:16,319
was

1407
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:20,000
disturbing

1408
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:23,200
and so initially i set out to research

1409
00:46:28,150 --> 00:46:25,280
and read on just like

1410
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:28,160
what is the conspiracy mindset like what

1411
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:28,960
makes people

1412
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:30,560
think these things and obviously like i

1413
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:32,240
have my own ideas that

1414
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:34,079
you know we're participating with

1415
00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:36,000
television and social media in ways that

1416
00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:36,319
we

1417
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,920
don't necessarily understand and that's

1418
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:39,599
certainly a part of it

1419
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:42,720
but for me i was like what what what's

1420
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:45,119
causing that you know like

1421
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:46,960
when you go out and make the

1422
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:48,160
proclamation

1423
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:52,240
that the entire dnc is a group of

1424
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:55,280
satanic worshipping pedophiles who are

1425
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:58,240
participating in blood ritual sacrifices

1426
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,920
and they're stealing an election on a

1427
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:01,680
massive scale

1428
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:03,920
and that's just like something you think

1429
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:05,440
is common parliaments

1430
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:09,040
it's like that's bizarre and

1431
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,720
that was happening several kind of

1432
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,240
places in my reality whether it was

1433
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,160
co-workers or whoever

1434
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:16,640
and i was like yeah a lot of again these

1435
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:17,920
ideas that used to be very

1436
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:20,240
fringe have become very mainstream for

1437
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:21,119
me that was

1438
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:23,599
disturbing and so i wanted to look into

1439
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:25,280
that i wanted to be like

1440
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:27,440
what makes people think these things how

1441
00:47:31,349 --> 00:47:29,359
do they get there

1442
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:31,359
you know what's that all about and so i

1443
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,640
started listening to your book

1444
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:34,960
i was like i don't i think i read maybe

1445
00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:36,800
the blurb on amazon or something i was

1446
00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:38,079
like yeah it seems good to me

1447
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:39,680
like why do people you know think about

1448
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:41,040
conspiracies or why do they believe what

1449
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:41,920
they do

1450
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:43,760
and i was like that's that's intriguing

1451
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:45,359
um and then i think

1452
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:48,000
at the very beginning of it you kind of

1453
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:49,119
net out what you're going to do

1454
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:50,480
throughout the course of the books you

1455
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:51,680
talk about how

1456
00:47:55,589 --> 00:47:54,000
you know the idea is you run the whole

1457
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:55,599
book saying you know

1458
00:47:59,349 --> 00:47:56,960
pretend you have a friend maybe the

1459
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:59,359
friend is you maybe it's just actually a

1460
00:48:01,430 --> 00:48:00,960
friend you're trying to take care of or

1461
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:01,440
help

1462
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,559
in some capacity and like here's what

1463
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:06,480
we're gonna do to kind of maybe

1464
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:09,359
at the very best steer them in a little

1465
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:11,040
bit of a different direction or provide

1466
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:12,480
them more information about

1467
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:15,200
some of these things and i was like okay

1468
00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:16,400
cool i don't know this is

1469
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:18,000
this is me driving in my phone i was

1470
00:48:20,309 --> 00:48:19,200
like i don't know this is exactly what i

1471
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:20,319
signed up for

1472
00:48:23,349 --> 00:48:21,839
but i'm like i'll listen to it whatever

1473
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:23,359
i've got it already

1474
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:25,359
um i think i mentioned this to you in

1475
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:27,280
your email where

1476
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:30,480
or in my email to you where

1477
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:32,160
when you mention things like yeah we'll

1478
00:48:37,030 --> 00:48:34,559
talk about flat earth and

1479
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:37,040
you know talk about chemtrails my mind

1480
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:38,160
is immediately like

1481
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:39,520
yeah that's easy to develop those are

1482
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:41,440
[\h__\h] and then

1483
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:44,480
we'll talk about sandy hook 911 and

1484
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:48,000
then kind of very deep in my mind i was

1485
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:48,720
like

1486
00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:50,800
well okay maybe i'll i'll listen to

1487
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:52,400
whatever he has to say about sandy hook

1488
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:53,040
but

1489
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,960
9 11. i'm like everyone knows 911 as an

1490
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:57,920
insider

1491
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,760
and like this is me just think about

1492
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:01,440
this i'm like there's no way this guy's

1493
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:02,640
not going to get it

1494
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:04,079
he's not going to get me you know what i

1495
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:06,079
meant i was like and that was something

1496
00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:08,880
i hadn't thought actively about for

1497
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:12,160
years you know again you mentioned

1498
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:13,680
people maybe get conspiracy fatigue and

1499
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:15,040
then move on to something else

1500
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:17,119
like that probably kind of happened to

1501
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:19,920
me with 9 11 truth and stuff where

1502
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:22,800
i had cemented a lot of those ideas you

1503
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:23,200
know

1504
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:26,480
in 2011 2012 whenever

1505
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:28,400
and then i had to simply never revisit

1506
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:30,640
them but they were still ideas that i

1507
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:31,920
had to where you know any day of the

1508
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:33,040
week if somebody was like

1509
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:35,680
well how did 9 11 happen then that would

1510
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,640
have been like oh well

1511
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:38,880
let me tell you about that so yeah you

1512
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:40,160
kind of talk about these four

1513
00:49:43,349 --> 00:49:41,760
conspiracies that we're going to cover

1514
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,359
throughout the book

1515
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:46,079
and again chemtrails for me automatic no

1516
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:46,480
go

1517
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:48,559
because i can remember being in third

1518
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:50,720
grade and reading the science textbook

1519
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:53,440
you're in that like meteorology section

1520
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:54,640
and it's like here are different types

1521
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:55,839
of clouds and sometimes

1522
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:58,640
airplanes make contrails because they

1523
00:50:01,349 --> 00:50:00,079
just condense an atmosphere and make

1524
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:01,359
clouds

1525
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:02,720
nine-year-old me was like that makes

1526
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:05,520
perfect sense and so like i've never

1527
00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:07,920
even thought twice about it i was like

1528
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:09,520
yeah that they're just clouds

1529
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:10,800
if you're like they're spraying

1530
00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:12,559
chemicals it's like literally

1531
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:16,079
no then flat earth obviously

1532
00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:20,720
yeah i was talking about um

1533
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:22,960
but yeah you know 9 11 and say here and

1534
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:25,119
so san diego was one of those ones

1535
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:27,119
because i formerly fell into the

1536
00:50:30,630 --> 00:50:28,960
category of

1537
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,640
dispelling everything immediately as

1538
00:50:34,870 --> 00:50:32,720
false flag you know i think i need to

1539
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:34,880
keep that up for my parents or whatever

1540
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:38,079
and so it got to a point what was one of

1541
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:40,000
the more recent ones like vegas

1542
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:42,319
pulse or whatever where i would i

1543
00:50:44,549 --> 00:50:43,760
wouldn't even go back and research

1544
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:44,559
anything

1545
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:47,440
you know like i wouldn't care i would

1546
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:48,720
just see that something happened in the

1547
00:50:52,470 --> 00:50:50,240
news it was a mass shooting

1548
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:52,480
i'd be like it was probably a black ops

1549
00:50:55,829 --> 00:50:53,280
seal team

1550
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:55,839
and like there would be nothing to check

1551
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:57,280
me about this like i would just think

1552
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:57,920
that

1553
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:01,520
i was listening to this book

1554
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:03,040
you know and then you mentioned people's

1555
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:04,800
respective stories in each one of those

1556
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:06,160
deals

1557
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:08,720
and then we get to kind of covering the

1558
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:11,680
brunt like 911 stuff

1559
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:15,280
and you know i think it's interesting

1560
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:17,200
you talking a lot about like 89 about

1561
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:19,359
the truth i somehow

1562
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:21,040
was never even aware of those people

1563
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:22,640
until

1564
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:26,480
your book and so i think maybe having

1565
00:51:29,829 --> 00:51:28,720
steered clear of that was maybe to my

1566
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:29,839
benefit

1567
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:33,359
but you mentioned you know several

1568
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:33,760
things

1569
00:51:37,589 --> 00:51:36,000
like hey here's some proof here's some

1570
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:37,599
evidence here's some information

1571
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:39,839
and one of the ones you mentioned was

1572
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,040
the nist report from 2005

1573
00:51:47,109 --> 00:51:45,760
and so me like you know i'm not in this

1574
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,119
to

1575
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:50,160
be an advocate for a conspiracy

1576
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:52,000
theory or another like i'm in it to just

1577
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:54,160
know as much as we can

1578
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:57,040
you know like the quest for truth if you

1579
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:58,640
will

1580
00:52:01,829 --> 00:52:00,000
and so when you're like oh hey there's a

1581
00:52:02,549 --> 00:52:01,839
nist report i thought to myself oh well

1582
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:02,559
i've

1583
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:03,330
never even

1584
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:13,510
yep like we're done here like there's

1585
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:14,800
not much more to talk about

1586
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:17,760
and then i saw all of the nist videos

1587
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:19,280
that they've made where

1588
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:22,640
you're talking about teams and

1589
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:25,760
teams of structural engineers and

1590
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:29,119
code designers and fire proofing

1591
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:31,040
experts and professionals who spent

1592
00:52:35,829 --> 00:52:33,839
their lives their livelihoods lifetimes

1593
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:35,839
researching this stuff putting

1594
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:37,440
everything into this like 300 page

1595
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:38,160
report

1596
00:52:42,870 --> 00:52:41,680
and it's like uh yep this is pretty open

1597
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:42,880
and shut for me

1598
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:47,520
like okay cool yeah and i think i

1599
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:50,640
sort of fell into the control demolition

1600
00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:52,480
aspect of the whole thing because like i

1601
00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:53,839
mentioned to you

1602
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:57,920
my dad is an architect and i remember

1603
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:01,599
very clearly like the days after 911 and

1604
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:03,200
stuff like that i mean

1605
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:04,720
people forget this but it was the only

1606
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,400
thing on tv for oh yeah

1607
00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:09,599
weeks months you know like this is in a

1608
00:53:13,829 --> 00:53:11,119
lot of ways like a pre

1609
00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:13,839
contemporary internet world so yeah you

1610
00:53:18,309 --> 00:53:15,599
got a stream of 911

1611
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:18,319
all day long people were on the tube all

1612
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,280
the time

1613
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,359
just constantly looking at this stuff

1614
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:23,440
and you know i remember him

1615
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:25,599
i think the very first thing he thought

1616
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:26,480
was like

1617
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:28,720
yeah they fell down because of the fires

1618
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:29,599
like that was like

1619
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:32,160
9 11 day one that evening or wherever

1620
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:33,599
he's like you know buildings catch fire

1621
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:35,040
that collapse

1622
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:38,160
but then after that you know he

1623
00:53:44,950 --> 00:53:43,040
he was just i think incredulous mostly

1624
00:53:46,230 --> 00:53:44,960
like he couldn't accept that it had

1625
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:46,240
happened

1626
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:48,880
and so kind of i remember he it's not

1627
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:50,160
like he ever

1628
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:51,839
you know went crazy and had like whole

1629
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:53,680
boards of research on the wall or

1630
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:55,440
anything it was never anything like that

1631
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:57,040
but

1632
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:00,400
i think because he couldn't

1633
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:03,200
just grasp like the enormity of that

1634
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:04,000
particular

1635
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:07,200
traumatic episode he kind of defaulted

1636
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:09,040
to being like it does look like it was

1637
00:54:12,069 --> 00:54:10,559
demo like that's what buildings look

1638
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:12,079
like when they get demoed

1639
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,599
it was never anything that he even maybe

1640
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:15,520
said directly to me or to anyone else it

1641
00:54:19,349 --> 00:54:17,040
was just kind of like you would be

1642
00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:19,359
watching this endless stream tv and then

1643
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:20,319
he would kind of like

1644
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:22,640
mutter these things just in this

1645
00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:24,880
controlled revolution you know

1646
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:26,720
that's him just kind of talking to

1647
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:28,800
himself and

1648
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:30,319
you know ten-year-old me very

1649
00:54:32,309 --> 00:54:31,760
impressionable as a ten-year-old it was

1650
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:32,319
like

1651
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,599
oh well that's gotta be the truth

1652
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:37,680
yeah you know and so like i had again

1653
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:39,359
that kind of fertile ground

1654
00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:42,160
for conspiratorial thinking and you know

1655
00:54:44,789 --> 00:54:42,799
you've got

1656
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:44,799
all the stuff there it's like straight

1657
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:46,880
from your parents he's got ethos being

1658
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:48,640
an architect like

1659
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:51,599
okay that makes sense and so then you go

1660
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:53,760
from that jumping off point of like

1661
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,200
oh well i think it must have been

1662
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:57,200
designed to listen to

1663
00:55:01,670 --> 00:54:59,200
why did it happen who did it who set it

1664
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:01,680
up why was it going on

1665
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:03,440
um but then when you read that miss

1666
00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:05,520
report you're like oh okay

1667
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:08,400
this is way less imaginative in the

1668
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:09,839
sense that it doesn't have this

1669
00:55:15,430 --> 00:55:13,440
massive fantasy story to it but

1670
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:15,440
it's real like that's the brass tacks of

1671
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:16,480
it all you know

1672
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:19,599
yeah it's it's really interesting your

1673
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:21,280
dad being an architect and

1674
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:23,599
you not being aware of architects and

1675
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,359
engineers for 911 truth which is

1676
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,000
organization of architects and engineers

1677
00:55:32,069 --> 00:55:30,319
who promote the controlled demolition

1678
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:32,079
theory and also not being aware of nist

1679
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:32,640
because

1680
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:34,319
architects and engineers for 911 truth

1681
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,920
their entire thing is all about saying

1682
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:37,839
the nist report is wrong and here's

1683
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,720
here's why it's wrong uh but would your

1684
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:42,720
dad have been aware of those things do

1685
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:43,599
you think

1686
00:55:50,549 --> 00:55:48,000
oh i think maybe again like

1687
00:55:52,950 --> 00:55:50,559
my parents were never they have a very

1688
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:52,960
like superficial sort of relationship

1689
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:53,440
with

1690
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:56,000
things in general but especially things

1691
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:57,520
in the news in particular

1692
00:56:01,670 --> 00:55:59,839
where it's like you know maybe he

1693
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:01,680
thought that or maybe he has like

1694
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:04,000
conspiracy theories in general of things

1695
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:04,880
but he never

1696
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:06,960
decides to dig in deeper it's just like

1697
00:56:11,670 --> 00:56:08,480
oh well

1698
00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:11,680
you know the democrats want to take your

1699
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:13,599
money from taxes because this or some

1700
00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:15,440
other vague notion about that

1701
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:17,280
and that's really all it ever is it's

1702
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:19,200
always very kind of surface

1703
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:22,960
so the idea that maybe he thought

1704
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,040
it's some kind of design demolition but

1705
00:56:29,270 --> 00:56:27,359
then never explored it any further

1706
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:29,280
makes a lot of sense to me like you

1707
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:31,119
probably would have yeah

1708
00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:34,079
well and again you know again at that

1709
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:36,079
time he would have been

1710
00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:39,599
in his mid to late 40s i think there's

1711
00:56:44,309 --> 00:56:41,760
you know the idea that maybe

1712
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:44,319
even if he had that thought he didn't

1713
00:56:48,789 --> 00:56:45,839
want to pursue it

1714
00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:48,799
because of like think of the genuine

1715
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:49,599
terror

1716
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:52,880
of the implication right like okay so it

1717
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:54,400
is design demolition

1718
00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:56,319
or you follow that hypothesis for a

1719
00:56:59,670 --> 00:56:57,760
while like

1720
00:57:02,069 --> 00:56:59,680
what does that mean you know in a lot of

1721
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:02,079
ways like that really happens

1722
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:04,640
you know the fabric of reality like and

1723
00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:05,280
they did this

1724
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:07,119
why why did they do it can we trust

1725
00:57:15,270 --> 00:57:13,510
mental protective measure he was just

1726
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:15,280
like no i'm not going to think about

1727
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:16,559
this anymore

1728
00:57:19,589 --> 00:57:18,640
yeah it's always reminds me of what you

1729
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:19,599
were talking about

1730
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:21,520
like where you you know you recognized

1731
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:23,280
that there was you know harm being done

1732
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:24,640
to your life by

1733
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,720
obsessing about these things and then

1734
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:28,400
what what what difference could you do

1735
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:29,440
anyway

1736
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:30,960
yeah it's this kind of conspiracy

1737
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:33,200
fatigue uh type thing

1738
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:35,680
where people just don't they you know

1739
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:37,200
people have

1740
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:38,960
you know their lives in the world

1741
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:40,319
whether they're doing stuff and getting

1742
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:42,160
on with their lives and then you know

1743
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,839
they also have these these conspiracy

1744
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:45,359
lives sometimes

1745
00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:47,280
uh and i think sometimes you just see

1746
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:48,960
this this balance shift like people

1747
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:50,799
become obsessed with conspiracy theories

1748
00:57:53,910 --> 00:57:52,319
at up to a point

1749
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,920
and then they realize that their their

1750
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:55,680
real life is is suffering and then that

1751
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:57,599
the bounds kind of shifts

1752
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,200
it doesn't necessarily mean they stop

1753
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:01,599
believing in these things it's just that

1754
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:06,630
and i mean that's for sure what happened

1755
00:58:12,309 --> 00:58:09,280
to me you know like i said

1756
00:58:15,750 --> 00:58:12,319
i hadn't thought about it for seven

1757
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:15,760
ten years maybe then i think it is very

1758
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:17,119
amusing to me like how

1759
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:18,559
visceral it was though when you were

1760
00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:20,319
like we're gonna talk about it

1761
00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:23,680
all right it's like no way dude inside

1762
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:24,559
job

1763
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:26,160
and then you know like i said i i read

1764
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:28,240
this report i looked at a couple of

1765
00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:29,680
other things where they

1766
00:58:33,190 --> 00:58:31,680
you've i'm sure seen all of it at this

1767
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:33,200
point but like

1768
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:35,440
the you know 3d modeling and like heat

1769
00:58:39,349 --> 00:58:37,280
mapping of world trade center 7. and

1770
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:39,359
it's like hey this is how this happened

1771
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:42,480
and i think a huge part of it is

1772
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:45,119
people just aren't familiar with how

1773
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:46,400
buildings fall down

1774
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:49,040
you know like you know you mentioned in

1775
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:51,040
the book and you talk about

1776
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:52,240
the reason it looks like design

1777
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:54,240
demolition is because if you paid

1778
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,040
somebody

1779
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:57,359
money to tear these buildings down

1780
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:58,720
that's how they would do it

1781
00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:00,160
they would do it in such a way that the

1782
00:59:05,109 --> 00:59:02,400
building used its own force to fall down

1783
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:05,119
yeah or like building seven yeah or

1784
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:05,599
people

1785
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:08,079
have this idea that these buildings are

1786
00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:09,920
super robust and it's like

1787
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:12,400
no kind of the trick is like you know

1788
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:13,920
the feats of modern engineering and

1789
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:15,520
architecture are very amazing

1790
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:17,280
at the end of the day like they have

1791
00:59:21,990 --> 00:59:19,760
tolerances and once you kind of

1792
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:22,000
destroy those tolerances and move beyond

1793
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:23,760
it that's it like they're not designed

1794
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:26,240
for these extreme case scenarios i mean

1795
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:29,119
world trade center what like wtc two

1796
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:31,280
they talk about it having deflected like

1797
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:32,960
two feet or more like this

1798
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:35,119
whole building yeah yeah more than that

1799
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:36,400
i think

1800
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:39,599
and twisted yeah which they were

1801
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,359
designed to do to sway a degree in the

1802
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:42,960
in the wind and they

1803
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:44,720
have a hurricane buildings actually do

1804
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:46,000
sway noticeably

1805
00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:49,040
because they have to absorb the uh the

1806
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:50,640
hurricane force wings which the

1807
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:52,160
buildings were designed to do

1808
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:53,680
and to think about that plane though

1809
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:55,680
impacting it like

1810
00:59:59,990 --> 00:59:58,640
27 inches of deflection that's a ton per

1811
01:00:01,670 --> 01:00:00,000
billion or

1812
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:01,680
you know you've discussed like momentum

1813
01:00:03,910 --> 01:00:03,359
because i think people don't have a good

1814
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:03,920
idea

1815
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:07,440
of dynamic systems right you know

1816
01:00:11,349 --> 01:00:09,440
oh it's moving faster than free fall and

1817
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:11,359
it's like well

1818
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:13,359
okay but like the physics of moving

1819
01:00:16,309 --> 01:00:14,400
bodies is

1820
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:16,319
certainly different when there are so

1821
01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:17,839
many dynamic elements

1822
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:20,160
in this system it's not just like high

1823
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:21,280
school physics throw

1824
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:23,680
a tennis ball and catch it like you've

1825
01:00:26,789 --> 01:00:24,400
got

1826
01:00:27,589 --> 01:00:26,799
all of this compounding momentum you've

1827
01:00:31,190 --> 01:00:27,599
got

1828
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:31,200
stuff it's very nice you know

1829
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:34,559
yeah so okay so

1830
01:00:38,069 --> 01:00:36,640
how how long ago was this that you kind

1831
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:38,079
of you know you read my book

1832
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:39,839
and do you have this realization about

1833
01:00:45,510 --> 01:00:42,559
the nist report oh i mean i like i said

1834
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:45,520
when i emailed you which would have been

1835
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:46,960
a few weeks ago now

1836
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:50,559
right yeah i'm just listening to

1837
01:00:53,990 --> 01:00:52,960
it right so yeah it's about two and a

1838
01:00:56,069 --> 01:00:54,000
half weeks ago

1839
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:56,079
and it was one of those things like it

1840
01:01:01,349 --> 01:00:57,680
was just such a

1841
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:01,359
kind of a neat moment that i was like oh

1842
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:03,440
you know i mean i kind of explained it

1843
01:01:05,490 --> 01:01:04,559
all an email where i was like hey you

1844
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:05,500
know

1845
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:06,640
[Music]

1846
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:10,000
well but given that it's it's still so

1847
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:12,240
new to you in a way like this report and

1848
01:01:15,750 --> 01:01:14,240
things like that

1849
01:01:17,589 --> 01:01:15,760
do you think there's a possibility that

1850
01:01:19,109 --> 01:01:17,599
you could be persuaded now

1851
01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:19,119
in the other direction obviously i don't

1852
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:20,960
want to do that but you know

1853
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:23,359
it seems like when people very rapidly

1854
01:01:27,990 --> 01:01:25,680
change their mind

1855
01:01:29,589 --> 01:01:28,000
is it possible that you know you could

1856
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:29,599
now say someone from architects and

1857
01:01:32,549 --> 01:01:30,480
engineers

1858
01:01:34,309 --> 01:01:32,559
for 911 truth they get in touch with you

1859
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:34,319
and they say like

1860
01:01:38,309 --> 01:01:36,400
yeah hey alex uh let's uh i heard what

1861
01:01:39,510 --> 01:01:38,319
you said and i think you're wrong about

1862
01:01:41,270 --> 01:01:39,520
this and i think mick is wrong about

1863
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:41,280
this and let me show you this

1864
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:44,000
and then they say here's a professor in

1865
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,520
alaska who's done this

1866
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:48,000
this this study on building seven and he

1867
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:48,880
did all this

1868
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:51,200
this work of uh analyzing it and

1869
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:52,720
simulating the building and he proved

1870
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:54,400
that it couldn't possibly be

1871
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:56,720
collapsed from fire do you think you

1872
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:57,520
could get

1873
01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:00,559
sucked back in or re-persuaded i mean

1874
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:02,799
this is one of those things

1875
01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:03,760
it's interesting you mentioned that

1876
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,000
because i kind of had a

1877
01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:08,160
microscopic sort of similar experience

1878
01:02:13,190 --> 01:02:09,839
to that already

1879
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:13,200
and this is certainly not maybe the most

1880
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:15,599
enlightened position to take but like

1881
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:18,079
i've kind of made the decision

1882
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:21,520
to not wade into some of those spaces

1883
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:24,799
um and that happened to me a couple of

1884
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:26,400
weeks ago because i was like

1885
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:28,000
looking at those other conspiracy books

1886
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:30,000
or i know what it was specifically

1887
01:02:33,589 --> 01:02:33,039
i was reading amazon reviews for your

1888
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:33,599
book

1889
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:36,880
yeah right um i think i was maybe

1890
01:02:40,390 --> 01:02:38,480
looking for other suggestions and things

1891
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:40,400
to read or whatever but i was like

1892
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:42,160
why do people why do they give them one

1893
01:02:44,309 --> 01:02:43,680
star i always want to read those one

1894
01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:44,319
stars

1895
01:02:49,589 --> 01:02:47,359
and so you know

1896
01:02:51,029 --> 01:02:49,599
someone in there posted a link oh here's

1897
01:02:52,950 --> 01:02:51,039
one this is all nonsense

1898
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:52,960
and you know i clicked the link and i

1899
01:02:56,950 --> 01:02:54,240
went there

1900
01:02:58,950 --> 01:02:56,960
and it was some website that wasn't even

1901
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:58,960
like a secured http

1902
01:03:01,990 --> 01:03:01,280
obviously so it's some like weird part

1903
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:02,000
of the internet

1904
01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:04,559
and it was like new information reveals

1905
01:03:09,190 --> 01:03:05,440
you know

1906
01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:09,200
and it's this like 13 17 minute video

1907
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:11,920
of some guy like explaining why like

1908
01:03:16,150 --> 01:03:13,839
nist calculations were wrong and they

1909
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:16,160
got all the math wrong or whatever and i

1910
01:03:20,710 --> 01:03:17,920
had like this impulse i was like

1911
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,720
oh well i should for the sake of science

1912
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,000
you know like that's the

1913
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:24,799
topic to be a reasonable person then i'm

1914
01:03:29,349 --> 01:03:26,079
just like

1915
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:29,359
no no like i don't i don't need to do

1916
01:03:32,470 --> 01:03:30,000
this you know

1917
01:03:33,589 --> 01:03:32,480
because i realized i wasn't doing

1918
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:33,599
anything healthy

1919
01:03:38,390 --> 01:03:37,200
by like trying to kind of open that

1920
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:38,400
background

1921
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:40,559
like it's kind of like you mentioned

1922
01:03:44,870 --> 01:03:41,520
world of warcraft

1923
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:44,880
like you kind of feel that right yeah

1924
01:03:49,029 --> 01:03:47,760
reflex very early on and i noticed that

1925
01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:49,039
and i was like

1926
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,880
i don't i don't need whatever this guy

1927
01:03:53,829 --> 01:03:52,079
has to say

1928
01:03:55,430 --> 01:03:53,839
at the end of the day i kind of also

1929
01:03:57,670 --> 01:03:55,440
thought it was like

1930
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:57,680
this guy might cover a lot of stuff this

1931
01:04:02,309 --> 01:03:59,599
person whomever it was like

1932
01:04:03,190 --> 01:04:02,319
that i just simply won't understand

1933
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:03,200
possibly

1934
01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:05,920
in a 15 to 17 minute video and what have

1935
01:04:08,230 --> 01:04:06,480
i done

1936
01:04:10,309 --> 01:04:08,240
like beneficially for myself at that

1937
01:04:11,829 --> 01:04:10,319
point like now i'm just

1938
01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:11,839
back in the vote of like not believing

1939
01:04:14,470 --> 01:04:13,200
anything and being untrustworthy of

1940
01:04:18,150 --> 01:04:14,480
everything because i watched

1941
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:18,160
one guy talk about the math for

1942
01:04:22,549 --> 01:04:20,720
15 17 minutes and then i was like no i

1943
01:04:24,549 --> 01:04:22,559
just gotta stay away from this

1944
01:04:27,190 --> 01:04:24,559
um and again that's that's not certainly

1945
01:04:29,589 --> 01:04:27,200
the most enlightened position but it's

1946
01:04:31,589 --> 01:04:29,599
one of those self-preservation very

1947
01:04:33,670 --> 01:04:31,599
practical i think and realistic because

1948
01:04:36,309 --> 01:04:33,680
you know most people are not going to

1949
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:36,319
get a degree in structural engineering

1950
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:36,799
uh

1951
01:04:40,630 --> 01:04:38,400
just so they can figure out exactly what

1952
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:40,640
happened on 911 so you're going to have

1953
01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:41,520
to rely

1954
01:04:45,589 --> 01:04:44,160
upon the expertise of others and so

1955
01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:45,599
you've either got like on with the one

1956
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:46,960
hand like you know nist and all the

1957
01:04:49,589 --> 01:04:48,160
structural engineers

1958
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:49,599
the majority of all the structural

1959
01:04:52,069 --> 01:04:51,280
engineers out there i know you've got

1960
01:04:54,309 --> 01:04:52,079
this

1961
01:04:56,309 --> 01:04:54,319
small group of people uh and you know

1962
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:56,319
this one guy in alaska

1963
01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:59,200
who's uh telling you something else and

1964
01:05:02,069 --> 01:04:59,680
yeah

1965
01:05:03,829 --> 01:05:02,079
most people even i aren't i'm fully

1966
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:03,839
capable of understanding all of the

1967
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:05,520
science behind it and so

1968
01:05:10,870 --> 01:05:09,359
to a degree you have to rely upon

1969
01:05:13,349 --> 01:05:10,880
you know your understanding of how the

1970
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:13,359
world works and whether people would be

1971
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:15,359
lying about these things

1972
01:05:19,029 --> 01:05:18,000
rather than the actual science itself

1973
01:05:21,990 --> 01:05:19,039
well i think

1974
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:22,000
kind of a meaningful point that you

1975
01:05:26,710 --> 01:05:23,760
could direct with people who talk about

1976
01:05:29,510 --> 01:05:26,720
like 89 mother truth and that stuff

1977
01:05:31,029 --> 01:05:29,520
is that this is something i'm pretty

1978
01:05:31,349 --> 01:05:31,039
familiar with at this point doing what i

1979
01:05:33,670 --> 01:05:31,359
do

1980
01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:33,680
being a home and building a sector and

1981
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:36,960
like being involved in that world of

1982
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:38,640
constructing buildings and making things

1983
01:05:42,390 --> 01:05:40,319
happen and putting things in reality and

1984
01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:42,400
it's like i told you like i'll be going

1985
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:44,640
back to graduate school this year to do

1986
01:05:49,829 --> 01:05:46,000
a master's in science

1987
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:49,839
construction science um

1988
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:52,880
think people if they're from the outside

1989
01:05:56,069 --> 01:05:55,200
they don't realize that yeah somebody

1990
01:05:58,150 --> 01:05:56,079
can have

1991
01:06:00,870 --> 01:05:58,160
a structural engineer designation or

1992
01:06:02,950 --> 01:06:00,880
this license or this training

1993
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:02,960
and still fundamentally like maybe not

1994
01:06:05,829 --> 01:06:04,079
know what they're doing

1995
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:05,839
and not know what they're talking about

1996
01:06:09,829 --> 01:06:08,240
you know it's like any profession

1997
01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:09,839
any profession anywhere people can get

1998
01:06:13,109 --> 01:06:11,680
licensed get certified

1999
01:06:15,109 --> 01:06:13,119
and you're going to have a whole

2000
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:15,119
spectrum of humans who participate

2001
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:17,200
in that profession regardless of the

2002
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:18,480
designation

2003
01:06:22,870 --> 01:06:20,559
and so you have people who are like

2004
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,880
there's 1200 engineers architects and

2005
01:06:25,349 --> 01:06:24,640
engineers for 911 truth and they all

2006
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:25,359
think this

2007
01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:31,430
like yeah they're all architects

2008
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:32,880
engineers but like that doesn't mean

2009
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:33,440
they're all

2010
01:06:37,829 --> 01:06:36,079
great and like you know a lot of the

2011
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:37,839
times you run into people who have like

2012
01:06:41,109 --> 01:06:40,000
a structural engineering degree from 40

2013
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:41,119
50 years ago

2014
01:06:44,470 --> 01:06:43,760
like we saw a lot of people yeah like

2015
01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:44,480
it's like okay

2016
01:06:47,349 --> 01:06:45,920
it's technically he's a structural

2017
01:06:48,789 --> 01:06:47,359
engineer yes this person has done this

2018
01:06:51,430 --> 01:06:48,799
but like

2019
01:06:52,549 --> 01:06:51,440
there's a difference in again i think

2020
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:52,559
people

2021
01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:54,480
just saying they're structural engineers

2022
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:56,640
or their engineers or their architects

2023
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:58,160
it's a very flattening kind of

2024
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:00,079
interpretation because

2025
01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:03,200
just because one is an architect or

2026
01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:06,640
is a structural engineer you know

2027
01:07:12,950 --> 01:07:09,920
maybe all that they're familiar with is

2028
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:12,960
building nursing homes building

2029
01:07:19,109 --> 01:07:16,640
homes building parking lots

2030
01:07:20,150 --> 01:07:19,119
parking lots building uh traffic control

2031
01:07:23,589 --> 01:07:20,160
scenarios and

2032
01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:23,599
um civil engineering and so to sit there

2033
01:07:25,829 --> 01:07:24,559
and say okay

2034
01:07:27,990 --> 01:07:25,839
maybe this person is a structural

2035
01:07:28,870 --> 01:07:28,000
engineer but most structural engineers i

2036
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:28,880
know

2037
01:07:32,710 --> 01:07:32,000
only do homes only do industrial

2038
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:32,720
properties

2039
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:34,799
only do like office and you know

2040
01:07:38,150 --> 01:07:36,480
multi-family or something to that event

2041
01:07:41,190 --> 01:07:38,160
they all have this niche

2042
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:41,200
so the idea that you have a thousand or

2043
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:42,720
twelve hundred

2044
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:45,680
architects and structural engineers who

2045
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:46,079
all

2046
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:49,280
are familiar and conversant about eleven

2047
01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:50,160
hundred

2048
01:07:56,150 --> 01:07:53,359
foot tall buildings

2049
01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:56,160
is very unlikely you know like people

2050
01:07:59,670 --> 01:07:57,280
kind of forget

2051
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:59,680
again the magnitude of some of these

2052
01:08:02,390 --> 01:08:00,480
projects

2053
01:08:03,910 --> 01:08:02,400
like when the world trade center was

2054
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:03,920
built

2055
01:08:07,829 --> 01:08:05,920
it was huge it was a huge deal in the

2056
01:08:10,309 --> 01:08:07,839
sense that they are literally

2057
01:08:12,069 --> 01:08:10,319
i mean it is it was the state of the art

2058
01:08:14,710 --> 01:08:12,079
of like how to do things like

2059
01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:14,720
the conversation of the external scale

2060
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:17,120
within like trust design frame that is

2061
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:19,040
the state of the art even the elevator

2062
01:08:23,669 --> 01:08:20,400
technology was like

2063
01:08:26,789 --> 01:08:23,679
the state of the art and so

2064
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:26,799
they had to pull from

2065
01:08:30,070 --> 01:08:28,719
the best of the best to even make that

2066
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:30,080
happen at the time

2067
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:32,319
and yeah we've obviously taken that and

2068
01:08:36,550 --> 01:08:34,319
moved forward in architecture and we've

2069
01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:36,560
you know copied it and modeled things

2070
01:08:42,070 --> 01:08:38,080
off of it since then

2071
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:42,080
but not everyone knows

2072
01:08:46,709 --> 01:08:44,400
how to build skyscrapers not everyone

2073
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:46,719
knows about skyscrapers and the people

2074
01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:48,000
who do

2075
01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:50,719
probably literally only do skyscrapers

2076
01:08:53,030 --> 01:08:52,480
or furthermore and i think this is where

2077
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:53,040
people

2078
01:08:59,269 --> 01:08:56,080
don't appreciate

2079
01:09:00,309 --> 01:08:59,279
the granularity of like task

2080
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:00,319
specificness

2081
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:03,120
in these fields it's like the guy who

2082
01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:05,440
probably designed the hat trust

2083
01:09:08,870 --> 01:09:07,520
that was it that's probably what that

2084
01:09:10,550 --> 01:09:08,880
guy did

2085
01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:10,560
or you know there was a guy who probably

2086
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:12,719
designed like several floors

2087
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:15,679
and that's it you know like that's how

2088
01:09:19,269 --> 01:09:17,839
specific these people's involvement gets

2089
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,279
so

2090
01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:21,839
then this notion that there are these

2091
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:23,440
people that just come out and like want

2092
01:09:26,149 --> 01:09:24,719
a structural engineer and let me tell

2093
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:26,159
you the what for

2094
01:09:30,149 --> 01:09:29,520
it's like you you can't know everything

2095
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:30,159
about this

2096
01:09:35,189 --> 01:09:33,040
it literally took hundreds and hundreds

2097
01:09:38,070 --> 01:09:35,199
of people to even analyze what happened

2098
01:09:39,349 --> 01:09:38,080
to it because no one had this corpus of

2099
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:39,359
knowledge required

2100
01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:42,239
to know what was going on yeah another

2101
01:09:45,269 --> 01:09:44,000
thing with structural engineers is that

2102
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:45,279
their

2103
01:09:51,669 --> 01:09:48,719
down

2104
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:51,679
and so they're experts in making it uh

2105
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:52,000
not

2106
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,520
fail when what you need is someone who

2107
01:09:59,350 --> 01:09:57,600
understands how a building will fail and

2108
01:10:00,709 --> 01:09:59,360
in what way it will fail

2109
01:10:02,790 --> 01:10:00,719
because you know if you just make it

2110
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:02,800
kind of fail in which

2111
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:04,960
in one floor just sags down a little bit

2112
01:10:08,070 --> 01:10:06,640
or it just tips over to the side or

2113
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:08,080
something like that it's not going to

2114
01:10:10,550 --> 01:10:08,880
work so

2115
01:10:12,149 --> 01:10:10,560
it's almost like you don't want

2116
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:12,159
structural engineers

2117
01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:14,640
uh who are concerned with building

2118
01:10:17,590 --> 01:10:16,159
things you need structural engineers who

2119
01:10:18,550 --> 01:10:17,600
are concerned with destroying things

2120
01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:18,560
which would be

2121
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:21,360
you know demolition experts or some kind

2122
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:21,760
of like

2123
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:23,920
building forensics professionals yeah

2124
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:26,640
people who do that you know like

2125
01:10:30,870 --> 01:10:28,480
that's the funny thing there is the the

2126
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:30,880
guy in alaska dr leroy hulsey is

2127
01:10:34,390 --> 01:10:31,360
actually

2128
01:10:37,030 --> 01:10:34,400
a uh forensic structural engineer uh

2129
01:10:38,630 --> 01:10:37,040
but his expertise is is mostly in uh in

2130
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:38,640
bridges

2131
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:41,600
rather than high-rise buildings so let's

2132
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:42,560
see what we

2133
01:10:46,950 --> 01:10:46,159
were saying it doesn't necessarily

2134
01:10:49,990 --> 01:10:46,960
translate

2135
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:50,000
you know and i have a very

2136
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:51,760
perfect example for that like literally

2137
01:10:55,110 --> 01:10:53,520
in my life you know where

2138
01:10:56,870 --> 01:10:55,120
i was looking for a structural engineer

2139
01:10:59,669 --> 01:10:56,880
one time for something and i

2140
01:11:01,270 --> 01:10:59,679
uh called up a guy from that i knew from

2141
01:11:03,830 --> 01:11:01,280
college or something i said hey

2142
01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:03,840
you do engineering right he's like yeah

2143
01:11:06,550 --> 01:11:05,040
but we do

2144
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:06,560
he literally said like this he's like

2145
01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:08,080
everything we do is horizontal you need

2146
01:11:11,590 --> 01:11:09,760
somebody that does something for

2147
01:11:13,350 --> 01:11:11,600
like that's how he broke it down to me

2148
01:11:15,270 --> 01:11:13,360
and i was like oh okay

2149
01:11:16,550 --> 01:11:15,280
and so i mean it's a fair point even if

2150
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:16,560
you're a guy in alaska

2151
01:11:21,510 --> 01:11:19,760
it's like it's not the same

2152
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:21,520
well it'll be interesting to see if you

2153
01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:23,600
do actually look into this more if you

2154
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:25,360
if you find any credence in their

2155
01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:27,120
arguments because i know exactly what

2156
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:29,120
anyone who is watching this or listening

2157
01:11:31,750 --> 01:11:30,480
to this who

2158
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:31,760
is a believer in architects and

2159
01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:33,600
engineers for 9 11 truth

2160
01:11:36,870 --> 01:11:34,800
they're just going to say that you

2161
01:11:39,910 --> 01:11:36,880
haven't looked into the facts

2162
01:11:41,830 --> 01:11:39,920
of a 911 and therefore you don't uh you

2163
01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:41,840
you would be persuaded if you if you had

2164
01:11:44,550 --> 01:11:43,120
looked into it

2165
01:11:46,229 --> 01:11:44,560
uh because this is one of those things

2166
01:11:47,430 --> 01:11:46,239
like you know they they put out these

2167
01:11:49,590 --> 01:11:47,440
long videos that

2168
01:11:50,790 --> 01:11:49,600
kind of look persuasive on the face of

2169
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:50,800
it but

2170
01:11:54,149 --> 01:11:53,440
really they uh they're full of holes

2171
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:54,159
because they're only

2172
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,280
they're only arguing from one

2173
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:57,360
perspective

2174
01:12:04,310 --> 01:12:01,360
well and again i think the videos are so

2175
01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:04,320
in sorcery because people don't

2176
01:12:07,910 --> 01:12:05,760
understand

2177
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:07,920
that the data are so cherry picked in a

2178
01:12:11,110 --> 01:12:08,880
way

2179
01:12:12,229 --> 01:12:11,120
i mean it's like the same with world

2180
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:12,239
trade center seven

2181
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:13,840
right they're like see look this

2182
01:12:16,229 --> 01:12:15,199
building looks fine this building looks

2183
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:16,239
fine

2184
01:12:19,910 --> 01:12:17,760
and then it's like no one ever shows

2185
01:12:22,950 --> 01:12:19,920
what is the south side that's

2186
01:12:26,470 --> 01:12:22,960
literally been covered in debris and

2187
01:12:27,990 --> 01:12:26,480
go to pieces and full of fire and like

2188
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:28,000
like all of the fire chiefs that day

2189
01:12:30,630 --> 01:12:29,520
that were like yeah we're literally

2190
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:30,640
we're just not gonna touch it did

2191
01:12:33,110 --> 01:12:31,920
everyone get out of the building great

2192
01:12:33,510 --> 01:12:33,120
okay we're not we're not gonna do

2193
01:12:37,030 --> 01:12:33,520
anything

2194
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:37,040
they

2195
01:12:40,310 --> 01:12:38,320
the firemen saying the building is going

2196
01:12:42,149 --> 01:12:40,320
to collapse which of course the the

2197
01:12:43,430 --> 01:12:42,159
the conspiracy theorists take as being

2198
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:43,440
that the firemen were told that the

2199
01:12:46,630 --> 01:12:44,719
building was going to be demolished

2200
01:12:48,149 --> 01:12:46,640
which then lead you to that everybody in

2201
01:12:50,390 --> 01:12:48,159
the fire department everybody around

2202
01:12:53,590 --> 01:12:50,400
there had to be in on the conspiracy

2203
01:12:56,149 --> 01:12:53,600
so it's uh what's interesting to me is

2204
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:56,159
you know you have these like it's one

2205
01:12:59,750 --> 01:12:57,840
thing to go off maybe the deep end with

2206
01:13:01,030 --> 01:12:59,760
the firefighter saying it but like

2207
01:13:02,790 --> 01:13:01,040
firefighters probably have been around

2208
01:13:03,510 --> 01:13:02,800
buildings have collapsed you know that

2209
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:03,520
makes sense

2210
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:05,760
like that's probably a story that gets

2211
01:13:09,669 --> 01:13:07,679
shared amongst that community like

2212
01:13:11,910 --> 01:13:09,679
yeah inferno is raging long enough like

2213
01:13:13,910 --> 01:13:11,920
if it's a sufficient conflagration

2214
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:13,920
you'll see it's creaking and sagging and

2215
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:15,840
uh hear the noises

2216
01:13:20,790 --> 01:13:18,960
but i mean i went through and watched

2217
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:20,800
like a ton of 911 footage

2218
01:13:24,790 --> 01:13:23,040
a few weeks ago i was like trying to you

2219
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:24,800
know reactivate some of those neurons

2220
01:13:27,669 --> 01:13:25,920
and see if i could

2221
01:13:29,110 --> 01:13:27,679
just dredge some stuff up out of

2222
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:29,120
curiosity

2223
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:30,640
and you've got all these like home

2224
01:13:34,310 --> 01:13:32,239
recorded videos you know

2225
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:34,320
thousands of people around new york and

2226
01:13:37,669 --> 01:13:35,600
manhattan that day

2227
01:13:38,950 --> 01:13:37,679
they were making home videos i mean

2228
01:13:40,310 --> 01:13:38,960
obviously not on their cell phones at

2229
01:13:41,750 --> 01:13:40,320
that point but just making like home

2230
01:13:43,430 --> 01:13:41,760
videos and stuff

2231
01:13:45,590 --> 01:13:43,440
and i can't tell you how many of them

2232
01:13:45,990 --> 01:13:45,600
you know whether it was 10 seconds or 30

2233
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:46,000
seconds

2234
01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:47,520
or 10 minutes or whatever all these

2235
01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:49,600
different videos of people

2236
01:13:53,110 --> 01:13:50,719
you know because everybody was just

2237
01:13:55,590 --> 01:13:53,120
huddling around staring at it

2238
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:55,600
like every other video had somebody

2239
01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:57,360
being like that's going to collapse

2240
01:14:00,709 --> 01:13:59,040
and we're talking at like 9 00 in the

2241
01:14:02,550 --> 01:14:00,719
morning 9 30 in the morning

2242
01:14:05,510 --> 01:14:02,560
and it's because even then people were

2243
01:14:07,350 --> 01:14:05,520
like if that doesn't get debated

2244
01:14:09,030 --> 01:14:07,360
it's just it's going to collapse and

2245
01:14:10,550 --> 01:14:09,040
yeah well

2246
01:14:13,030 --> 01:14:10,560
in the side of the building which is

2247
01:14:16,149 --> 01:14:13,040
yeah and there's no way to sufficiently

2248
01:14:18,070 --> 01:14:16,159
attack a fire like i mean it's just

2249
01:14:20,229 --> 01:14:18,080
you think about it you just ate nine

2250
01:14:24,390 --> 01:14:20,239
floors on fire and like

2251
01:14:27,270 --> 01:14:24,400
again it just goes uncontested it's like

2252
01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:27,280
yeah yeah well i'm sure they would have

2253
01:14:30,790 --> 01:14:29,040
uh argument well they obviously they do

2254
01:14:33,189 --> 01:14:30,800
have arguments against yeah but

2255
01:14:34,790 --> 01:14:33,199
you can you can't win yeah you have to

2256
01:14:36,149 --> 01:14:34,800
know like you're going into a losing

2257
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:36,159
battle and i think

2258
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:37,920
that that's maybe one of the biggest

2259
01:14:42,790 --> 01:14:40,159
points from your book that i feel like a

2260
01:14:44,070 --> 01:14:42,800
lot of people if they're out there kind

2261
01:14:45,590 --> 01:14:44,080
of listening to this and they've got

2262
01:14:48,630 --> 01:14:45,600
someone in their life who's

2263
01:14:49,510 --> 01:14:48,640
you know on the q a on train or whatever

2264
01:14:52,630 --> 01:14:49,520
the train

2265
01:14:55,669 --> 01:14:52,640
is that like you're you're very focused

2266
01:14:57,110 --> 01:14:55,679
on trying to subfuse compassion into

2267
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:57,120
this situation which i think is very

2268
01:15:01,270 --> 01:14:58,400
important

2269
01:15:01,830 --> 01:15:01,280
like you don't want to try to attack

2270
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:01,840
people

2271
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:03,840
you don't want to try to come at them

2272
01:15:07,030 --> 01:15:05,920
and like kill them with facts and logic

2273
01:15:09,510 --> 01:15:07,040
or whatever

2274
01:15:10,310 --> 01:15:09,520
your role is to just kind of like come

2275
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:10,320
down the mountain

2276
01:15:14,149 --> 01:15:12,000
provide information go back up the

2277
01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:14,159
mountain like all you can do is like

2278
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:15,280
water on a rock

2279
01:15:19,110 --> 01:15:18,719
you know like try your best meet them at

2280
01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:19,120
their

2281
01:15:26,149 --> 01:15:24,239
and they still don't listen to you that

2282
01:15:28,070 --> 01:15:26,159
day or care know that you did what you

2283
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:28,080
could and just kind of go on

2284
01:15:31,669 --> 01:15:29,760
and then maybe try it again you know i

2285
01:15:33,510 --> 01:15:31,679
mean this is the same thing i think like

2286
01:15:34,950 --> 01:15:33,520
certain faith traditions and teachings

2287
01:15:37,350 --> 01:15:34,960
try to teach us and

2288
01:15:37,990 --> 01:15:37,360
not enough people eat it there either

2289
01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:38,000
but

2290
01:15:41,270 --> 01:15:39,520
that's i think a big part of your

2291
01:15:43,510 --> 01:15:41,280
message in the book it's like just

2292
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:43,520
be as compassionate as possible because

2293
01:15:47,189 --> 01:15:45,040
these are still human beings

2294
01:15:48,070 --> 01:15:47,199
you know like yeah that's i think one of

2295
01:15:50,870 --> 01:15:48,080
the

2296
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,880
issues we maybe run into with being

2297
01:15:55,510 --> 01:15:52,800
afraid of conspiratorial minded

2298
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:55,520
people is that it's like well that's

2299
01:15:57,910 --> 01:15:56,960
dangerous we got a round wallet or

2300
01:15:59,910 --> 01:15:57,920
whatever it's like

2301
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:59,920
hey they're humans and you you stress

2302
01:16:02,390 --> 01:16:01,199
this a lot too in the book where you're

2303
01:16:05,030 --> 01:16:02,400
like

2304
01:16:06,550 --> 01:16:05,040
initially trying to figure out what

2305
01:16:08,310 --> 01:16:06,560
gives people that proclivity for

2306
01:16:10,149 --> 01:16:08,320
conspiracy mindset or why do they go

2307
01:16:13,510 --> 01:16:10,159
into these directions

2308
01:16:14,470 --> 01:16:13,520
and once you kind of reach the

2309
01:16:16,149 --> 01:16:14,480
conclusion where it's like we don't

2310
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:16,159
really know it could kind of happen to

2311
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:17,280
anyone

2312
01:16:20,709 --> 01:16:19,679
like that's one of those really sort of

2313
01:16:22,149 --> 01:16:20,719
humbling moments

2314
01:16:23,830 --> 01:16:22,159
where you're like you know it's very

2315
01:16:24,550 --> 01:16:23,840
much like not for the grace of god

2316
01:16:28,070 --> 01:16:24,560
they're going

2317
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:28,080
like you know anyone could go down that

2318
01:16:33,189 --> 01:16:31,280
and once you realize that it's not that

2319
01:16:35,110 --> 01:16:33,199
person's fault or they're not

2320
01:16:37,030 --> 01:16:35,120
stupid necessarily because some of these

2321
01:16:39,990 --> 01:16:37,040
people are incredibly intelligent

2322
01:16:41,669 --> 01:16:40,000
you know um and that's what you know to

2323
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:41,679
serve me especially

2324
01:16:46,470 --> 01:16:43,600
recently with a lot of the like human

2325
01:16:48,310 --> 01:16:46,480
ensembles these are otherwise like

2326
01:16:51,350 --> 01:16:48,320
upstanding regular members of the

2327
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:51,360
community very intelligent human beings

2328
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:53,760
but then the next thing you know they're

2329
01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:55,280
like

2330
01:16:58,790 --> 01:16:57,280
believing this other thing that's very

2331
01:17:00,790 --> 01:16:58,800
fringe

2332
01:17:02,630 --> 01:17:00,800
and so i think the huge part of it is

2333
01:17:03,669 --> 01:17:02,640
putting that humanity in the situation

2334
01:17:06,070 --> 01:17:03,679
and knowing like

2335
01:17:06,790 --> 01:17:06,080
these are people treat them like people

2336
01:17:08,870 --> 01:17:06,800
like

2337
01:17:10,950 --> 01:17:08,880
yes these ideas might be dangerous yes

2338
01:17:13,350 --> 01:17:10,960
you might not agree with them

2339
01:17:14,390 --> 01:17:13,360
but your role is to just try to

2340
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:14,400
constantly

2341
01:17:20,950 --> 01:17:16,640
you know come back and be like have you

2342
01:17:25,110 --> 01:17:23,830
yes that's great and i obviously agree

2343
01:17:26,709 --> 01:17:25,120
with all of that and uh

2344
01:17:28,149 --> 01:17:26,719
i think that's probably a good place to

2345
01:17:30,310 --> 01:17:28,159
kind of wrap it up so

2346
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:30,320
thank you very much uh this has been

2347
01:17:32,950 --> 01:17:31,440
like really interesting

2348
01:17:35,430 --> 01:17:32,960
uh i think your perspective is really

2349
01:17:37,189 --> 01:17:35,440
really great like you're

2350
01:17:38,550 --> 01:17:37,199
it's kind of like showing things for me

2351
01:17:39,910 --> 01:17:38,560
in kind of a bit of a different light

2352
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:39,920
just you know coming from this this

2353
01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:41,600
perspective of growing up

2354
01:17:46,229 --> 01:17:44,320
in the conspiracy theories and having it

2355
01:17:47,830 --> 01:17:46,239
being such a fundamental part of who you

2356
01:17:49,430 --> 01:17:47,840
are that you you almost like just didn't

2357
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:49,440
think about certain things

2358
01:17:55,030 --> 01:17:52,400
uh for a while uh and yeah and then how

2359
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:55,040
you finally

2360
01:17:59,189 --> 01:17:56,480
it's like you know you've got training

2361
01:18:00,630 --> 01:17:59,199
now as as a building inspector and i

2362
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:00,640
mean engineering

2363
01:18:04,709 --> 01:18:03,120
and i think that it's almost like you've

2364
01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:04,719
had like these two parallel things and

2365
01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:06,400
they kind of come together and the

2366
01:18:10,310 --> 01:18:08,080
you know one cancels out the other thing

2367
01:18:11,590 --> 01:18:10,320
at some point but it took

2368
01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:11,600
you know this kind of trigger of you

2369
01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:13,520
actually thinking about it again for it

2370
01:18:17,350 --> 01:18:14,800
it actually to

2371
01:18:18,630 --> 01:18:17,360
to be like you know purged a bit more

2372
01:18:21,990 --> 01:18:18,640
from your system

2373
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:22,000
yeah yeah all right well thank you very